PH/KH/Buffers help please

[Deleted]

I set up a 5.5 gallon tank recently as an experiment tank. No fish, it's just to try out things and see how the various levels are affected, without putting lives at risk! It cycled in just 2 weeks with half established tank water. I dosed some Replenish but otherwise ignored it.

Over 2 wks:
PH fell from 7.4 to 6.8 (expected),
GH increased with Replenish to 15, or 272ppm
KH fell to 1, or 0 ppm.

( I didn't have GH/KH tests at the onset, but aged tap water is GH 8/140 and KH 5, or 85 ppm.)

A 50% water change to bring levels back up and 2 days later:
PH 7.6
GH 10, or 180ppm
KH 4, or 70ppm

Following 4 days of Fungus Cure (for possible bacteria concerns) and a 25% water change:
PH 7.8
GH still 10, or 180ppm
KH 3, or <50ppm

This is more 'normal' and a great example for what I am trying hard to understand when it comes to PH, KH and buffers:

How do I increase my KH for PH stability without sending the PH through the roof?

(I am not chasing a certain PH, would prefer lower and don't want higher for mainly Amazon fish, but what is most important is stability).

I see in the forum talk about using acid buffers to lower the PH and alkaline buffers to raise KH but it seems to me this would just lower both aspects them raise them up.. and you're back where you started. Or, can you manipulate the 2 things independently? This is why I wanted to do it for myself and see.

So, I added a 2 x 4" piece of pillow moss to the filter last night.

Today the levels are:
PH 8.2
GH9-10, or 160-180ppm
KH 2, or @ 30 ppm

This hike in PH was unexpected.

Carl, is this what you refer to in your articles as bouncing the PH, when you add buffers and the KH is so low?

Perhaps this will level out, I'll test tomorrow... but the question remains how do you achieve a reasonable level of stability with putting the PH through the roof? I'd be so grateful if someone can clear up the fog on this issue for me. I have read and reread the articles, it's just not clicking, so with that.... help?

I'm really hoping there's a gentle approach that doesn't put me into a high maintenance delicate balance of things.


Thank you!

[Carl]

First, a 5.5 gallon aquarium is by nature a very unstable environment.
I would see much less bouncing the larger aquariums I would maintain.

So this mean ANY buffer additions need to be very small if needed at all, and then to water to be added during water changes

A 50% water change to bring levels back up and 2 days later:
PH 7.6
GH 10, or 180ppm
KH 4, or 70ppm

This is a good reading for a small tank with Bettas, something I would not mess with other than adding small amounts of Wonder Shells for mineral cations

How do I increase my KH for PH stability without sending the PH through the roof?

(I am not chasing a certain PH, would prefer lower and don't want higher for mainly Amazon fish, but what is most important is stability).

I see in the forum talk about using acid buffers to lower the PH and alkaline buffers to raise KH but it seems to me this would just lower both aspects them raise them up.. and you're back where you started. Or, can you manipulate the 2 things independently? This is why I wanted to do it for myself and see.

So, I added a 2 x 4" piece of pillow moss to the filter last night.

Today the levels are:
PH 8.2
GH9-10, or 160-180ppm
KH 2, or @ 30 ppm

This hike in PH was unexpected.

Carl, is this what you refer to in your articles as bouncing the PH, when you add buffers and the KH is so low?

Yes; however with the previously noted KH, I personally would have not added any KH Buffer or a very insignificant amount for a tank so small

The Pillow Moss is a good idea, but likely would not cause this and from my testing will eventually lower your pH

Part of what affects and even controls pH and in turn KH reserves is a healthy bio filter. For this reason it is so important to have a good sponge filter or at least some Matrix or other method of having a bio filter that could be proven by ammonia levels that stay low even without water changes for WEEKS!.

In the absence of a good bio filter, all additions to the tank other than Wonder Shells should be made in the added water

suggested Reading:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html
www.fishbeginner.info/home/nitrogen-cycle/

Carl

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2014 20:20:25 GMT -5 Carl said:

First, a 5.5 gallon aquarium is by nature a very unstable environment.
I would see much less bouncing the larger aquariums I would maintain.

So this mean ANY buffer additions need to be very small if needed at all, and then to water to be added during water changes

First off, thank you Carl for the very detailed and speedy response!

So right off the bat, I've opted to experiment with a tank that is too small to have a stable environment, therefore it's behaviour and my results won't be typical or reliable. Well if that's all I learn from this, it's worth it!. I've heard small tanks are not as stable, but I've never had a much larger tank to compare with and see what this means in real terms.  

A 50% water change to bring levels back up and 2 days later:
PH 7.6
GH 10, or 180ppm
KH 4, or 70ppm

This is a good reading for a small tank with Bettas, something I would not mess with other than adding small amounts of Wonder Shells for mineral cations
My comment does sound like I was making changes to 'fix' something, but remember this is just a little experiment to witness cause and effect.  At this point I'd seen how the PH will decline over time and wanted to see how much a 50% WC would alter things.

The tank was dosed with Replenish.  I understand the GH reading is not an accurate test of cations... but is there a level you feel is preferable to this?  (I've heard you say above 200 indicates a surplus of calcium but I gather that's not a concern as excess is precipitated out)

How do I increase my KH for PH stability without sending the PH through the roof?

(I am not chasing a certain PH, would prefer lower and don't want higher for mainly Amazon fish, but what is most important is stability).

I see in the forum talk about using acid buffers to lower the PH and alkaline buffers to raise KH but it seems to me this would just lower both aspects them raise them up.. and you're back where you started. Or, can you manipulate the 2 things independently? This is why I wanted to do it for myself and see.

So, I added a 2 x 4" piece of pillow moss to the filter last night.

Today the levels are:
PH 8.2
GH9-10, or 160-180ppm
KH 2, or @ 30 ppm

This hike in PH was unexpected.

Carl, is this what you refer to in your articles as bouncing the PH, when you add buffers and the KH is so low?

Yes; however with the previously noted KH, I personally would have not added any KH Buffer or a very insignificant amount for a tank so small
Okay, understood... but again I was not attempting to 'fix' anything; I simply wanted to witness the impact of the pillow moss.

The Pillow Moss is a good idea, but likely would not cause this and from my testing will eventually lower your pH
If I'm understanding correctly, you're saying the pillow moss would not cause the PH to bounce in a larger, more stable tank..  

I had actually added a 1" sq piece 2 days earlier but saw no effect. Thinking it was just tooooo small, I added the larger piece.

Part of what affects and even controls pH and in turn KH reserves is a healthy bio filter. For this reason it is so important to have a good sponge filter or at least some Matrix or other method of having a bio filter that could be proven by ammonia levels that stay low even without water changes for WEEKS!.
The tank has an AquaClear 30 (for up to a 30g tank), enough Matrix for a 10g, foam, poly pad, a 6" long fluted (Elite) pre-filter on the downspout, and another 'post-filter' in the water where the filtered water releases to the tank (as more of a flow slower for the betta).

The tank did cycle.. ammonia rose to 4 then back to 0.. but no, I had not repeated the process for weeks.

In the absence of a good bio filter, all additions to the tank other than Wonder Shells should be made in the added water
Yes, ok.  
Except pillow moss I presume. My understanding is that it sits in the filter.

suggested Reading:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html
www.fishbeginner.info/home/nitrogen-cycle/

Carl

It's very helpful just to understand just how unstable such a small tank is and seeing the PH 'bounce' in the opposite direction than intended was a good example!

Unfortunately, experimenting with this tank I guess is not going to show me what I'd hoped about ph/kh and buffers, but I still need to understand the general concept of how these work together.

If we forget the specifics of this tank and just deal with PH/KH levels and how to manage with buffers, can we talk about this as a general concept? 

I was using the levels I had, PH 7.8 with KH 3/<50 as an example of a realistic scenario where you have KH levels that indicate inadequate stability... meaning I presume that you need to do 'something' to improve that, but at the same time you do not want to raise the PH. So, as a general question.. or let's say I'm working with a 90g tank my question is still:

How do I increase my KH for PH stability without sending the PH through the roof?

I see in the forum talk about using acid buffers to lower the PH and alkaline buffers to raise KH but it seems to me this would just lower both aspects them raise them up.. and you're back where you started. Or, can you manipulate the 2 things independently? Or s the answer something OTHER than buffers?

OR... is this NOT a realistic example because (since you're stressing the importance of a strong bio-filter) if you HAD a strong bio-filter, you wouldn't have such a low KH?

Thanks again

[Carl]

You had a lot there and Mondays are very busy, so I will try and sum it up as best I can (hopefully I answer all your points)


*With Pillow Moss, you should definitely see a drop in pH in a relatively short time (a couple of days), any bounce back up can only be explained by a poor bio filter and/or too much Alkaline buffer.

*You GH levels are OK, and going up to 200 ppm should not be an issue, all that is important is regular addition of mineral Cations, even if in small amounts. This can result in the GH you are seeing or even a GH of 400 ppm (which is still safe based on scientific research, not anecdotal musings of old school fish keepers).

*I understood these were only experiments, but I still felt it was important for other readers to know that normally additions of buffers of any quantity should be avoided.
More importantly that experiments in small aquariums, especially if the bio filter is weak or unestablished is not going to result in accurate results. This is the same reason experiments in Petri dishes often yield completely results than a real world experiment
Most of my test/experiments were in tanks over 60 gallons.

From Fish Beginner; Nitrogen Cycle:
"What affect does a healthy biological nitrogen cycle have on other aquarium chemistry parameters, especially in bowls or small tanks?

This is a common question and the simple answer is that a well established nitrogen cycle constantly produces acids that deplete your aquariums alkaline reserve which in turn slowly lowers pH over time unless alkaline buffers or water changes with buffers are performed (natural or added).
This is quite healthy and having an established and balanced nitrogen cycle along with good aquatic chemistry practices generally results in tanks with few pH/KH bounces.

The problems often occurs in small tanks where parameters are generally less stable simply because it is more difficult to maintain a healthy nitrogen cycle.
This is considerably amplified in bowls or small tanks where no bio filter is present or when the bio filter is so weak that regular water changes are needed just to keep ammonia and nitrite levels in check."

Reference:
www.fishbeginner.info/home/nitrogen-cycle/

Carl

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2014 12:40:23 GMT -5 Carl said:

*I understood these were only experiments, but I still felt it was important for other readers to know that normally additions of buffers of any quantity should be avoided.

OH!!!! I wasn't getting that at all.

(all the talk about managing levels with acid/alkaline buffers, I thought this was some big, and to me very confusing aspect that I had to understand and deal with in order to have a successful tank!) Oh my, deep breaths.. okay, I'm over it. Not quite. AAaaaaagh! Ok, I'm good. 

And so to my question of (and not talking about small tanks): When you have high PH and low KH, how do you raise your KH (to give improved stability) without raising the PH? your answer is:

If you have that situation, you don't have a strong bio-filter. Work on improving your tank's bio-filter and that will improve the stability.  (which I'm gathering will be then reflected in readings that show the same or lower PH with a healthier ie higher KH). And also... you don't want to start adding buffers.

[Carl]

And so to my question of (and not talking about small tanks): When you have high PH and low KH, how do you raise your KH (to give improved stability) without raising the PH? your answer is:

If you have that situation, you don't have a strong bio-filter. Work on improving your tank's bio-filter and that will improve the stability. (which I'm gathering will be then reflected in readings that show the same or lower PH with a healthier ie higher KH). And also... you don't want to start adding buffers.

Pretty much.
However I am not necessarily saying you should not be concerned with your KH (alkalinity)

Using the old proverb to explain:
"Do not place the cart before the horse"
What I am saying is you can still be building your "cart" but do not expect your cart to work as hoped until you get the horse in place.
Ditto with the stability of your aquarium pH/KH without a stable nitrogen cycle and when water changes are a constant process instead of an occasional maintenance procedure.

All this said, everything can be perfect (or so it seems), including a larger aquarium, and the normal reactions of chemistry do not happen. I have seen this too. HOWEVER, in most instances further investigation revealed something was askew that was missed, as chemistry processes are quite cause and effect just as much as you can count on 1 + 1 = 2, not 3

Carl

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2014 15:23:53 GMT -5 Carl said:

And so to my question of (and not talking about small tanks): When you have high PH and low KH, how do you raise your KH (to give improved stability) without raising the PH? your answer is:

If you have that situation, you don't have a strong bio-filter. Work on improving your tank's bio-filter and that will improve the stability. (which I'm gathering will be then reflected in readings that show the same or lower PH with a healthier ie higher KH). And also... you don't want to start adding buffers.

Pretty much.
However I am not necessarily saying you should not be concerned with your KH (alkalinity)

Using the old proverb to explain:
"Do not place the cart before the horse"
What I am saying is you can still be building your "cart" but do not expect your cart to work as hoped until you get the horse in place.
Ditto with the stability of your aquarium pH/KH without a stable nitrogen cycle and when water changes are a constant process instead of an occasional maintenance procedure.

All this said, everything can be perfect (or so it seems), including a larger aquarium, and the normal reactions of chemistry do not happen. I have seen this too. HOWEVER, in most instances further investigation revealed something was askew that was missed, as chemistry processes are quite cause and effect just as much as you can count on 1 + 1 = 2, not 3

Carl

Ok, thanks Carl. 

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2014 18:50:59 GMT -5 @seapetal111 said:

>> How do I increase my KH for PH stability without sending the PH through the roof?

I set my pH using Seachem Alkaline Buffer and Seachem Acid Buffer (generally ratio of 2 to 1 for pH of 7.0) - before I put the water in the tank. I use Microbe-Lift KH Booster (just a little) to help keep KH at an ideal level for my fish/nitrogen cycle. It only takes a little bit of KH Booster. If I use conditioned tap water for any water change, I set the pH in that as well. Our local tap water has an extremely low KH reading (less than 2 degrees). 


For a quick test, I use Tetra 6 in 1 test strips - but for a more accurate reading, I use API liquid test kit.

[kevin]

Hi Seapetal
Great thread. Im asking almost the same question in another one (under african cichlids/tilapia). I need to raise both a little, but my question was similar, if the alkaline buffer brings it up, why am I adding a acid buffer which will undo what I just did.
I watching Carls answers--very cool.

Also, Im curious on your conversion from degrees to ppm, if GH is multiply by 17.9, is KH multipy by 15?
I see some of these answers in this forum in degrees and never really know how that fits me- using ppm. Let me know what you know on that--
Thanks, Kevin

[Deleted]

Hi Kevin/All,

Before I started using RO water.... I only used an alkaline buffer to raise the pH when/if it dropped.
Since using RO water with pH set perfectly (using both the alkaline and acid buffers) it doesn't drop (much). If I get just a slight drop, now I just add a little KH Booster (which is much more affordable. Doesn't cost as much as Alkaline buffer). I don't know why this works... It just does (smile).

Prior to using KH Booster, I would keep a little pouch of crushed coral rock in my filter. This helped to keep the KH and pH up (well - high enough to keep the nitrogen cycle going). Now that my KH is in the ideal range - I no longer have the crushed coral rock in the filter (pH was climbing).

Before I used Seachem Alkaline Buffer, I was actually using a cichlid buffer to raise the pH. I battled with pH swings for several years -- until I finally learned what the problem was -- low KH. One learns a lot (or has to learn a lot) when they suddenly adopt a 75 gallon aquarium full of fish. On a side note: My son started the aquarium in Athens, OH...He never had any issues with pH - KH - GH....Water seemed to be perfect, which was good as he was going to school at the time and wouldn't have had time to deal with such issues.

[kevin]

Im just starting with a "cut"RO water as in change water only. In 17 yrs, he's never had soft water. Being cichlid, my understanding from the crew here is to run it h little higher, and with the gradual depletion of KH anyway, I dont want it to drop.
Does the coral bring it up slower than a chemical booster?
Im trying not to hit my GH, as its already over 300 ppm so looking for boost with less minerals. And I use 1/4 large wondershell for calcium.

Kevin

[Deleted]

Updated with link to KH Booster - hope this is OK:
microbelift.com/products/pond-and-water-garden/chemical-water-treatments/kh-alkalinity-bio-active-booster/
Yes, it is "chemical"... but not a liquid product is what I meant, I guess. It is sold under pon supply, but works in home aquariums, too.

Hi Kevin,

Boosting KH will not change GH. Microbe Lift KH Booster isn't "chemical". It is something similar to baking soda (but NOT baking soda) -- just like raising pH with Alkaline buffer will not raise GH. GH tests mainly calcium and magnesium (and what other dissolved minerals? Carl can tell you). KH is carbonate hardness.

I didn't have a problem with the crushed coral raising my pH - until I started with the KH Booster. My son, however, had a problem when he used the crushed coral. I suspect he just used too much.

I started with just 1 tablespoon of crushed coral (I put it in my AquaClear 100 so I could easily remove it if pH rose too high). I monitored pH daily for a while. The crushed coral kept my KH around 3 degrees. Keep in mine, the local water supply was less than 2 degrees. Once I started using the RO water and Seachem buffers, the crushed coral kept the KH close to 4 degrees. According the dippy stick, my KH is now "ideal"... that is good enough for me. I haven't done an API test kit for a while. My goal was always to keep the KH around 4 degrees (or slightly higher).

I have barbs (many sizes - including two HUGE tinfoil), cory cats, lots of rainbowfish....one big feather fish catfish and four Congo tetras...one flying fox and one rainbow shark.... so a mixed batch of fish....all have adapted to the conditions nicely.

I found that using Chemi-Pure helped keep KH and pH stable, but I don't know the science why that works. Maybe it is just because Chemi-pure removed organics - saving the bio filter some work?

Note: I did a water change for my son yesterday (well actually did water changes in 3 aquariums - 20 gallon, 55 gallon and 90 gallon). He is just swamped right now with work. When I got there, the 90 gallon had near ZER0 KH - Yikes! The pH had dropped down close to 6.0 (down from 6.8 from when I did the last water change). I checked for ammonia and fortunately the reading for ammonia was only slight. Right away, I put in one measure of KH Booster and 1/2 teaspoon of Alkaline Buffer. That brought the pH up to closer to 6.5. I gradually added each (KH Booster first -- then buffer) dissolved in a bucket of aquarium water - so change was gradual for the fish. I went about and did the other water changes.....saving the 90 gallon for last. Before I left today, the 90 gallon pH was back up to 6.8 and had a KH reading that was ideal (dippy stick). Fish all had their appetites back - and were very active.

I showed my son't girlfriend how to check both pH and KH (goal is at least 4 drops if API test kit or nice green color on dippy stick/not olive green). She will keep the levels right so fish don't get stressed again. If she checks every few days, all should be fine. The planted tanks are both stable.

The fish have come a long way since August (when I started doing his water changes)....The GH was way too high.... I won't go into all of the problems the fish had - but the survivors are doing much better. He will probably lose his last two blue Gouramis....He lost all of his pearl Gouramis. The majority of fish in the tank are large South American varieties - plus some barbs and one featherfish catfish.

This is the "mishap"....He was buying water that was supposed to be RO...It wasn't. I tested the water in his jugs and it was at least 9 degrees general hardness right in the jug (I lost count on drops). The retailer was basically just selling "Tap" water -- with only a slightly lower GH than from the tap. He obviously was not checking his GH at all or he would have discovered it on his own (he was using Kent RO Right added to the water). His two planted tanks are newer and not as far "off". I have those now at a GH around 7 to 8 degrees and the fish are all doing fine - no more stress -- down from 13 to 14 degrees for those -- both tanks have that prefer softer water -- tetras and barbs mainly. The 90 gallon is down to 9 degrees and will stay close to that (We did use water softening pillows to bring it down gradually (I had stopped counting at 20 drops!). If you saw those fish, you would have done the same). In this way, the GH will closely match the GH from the stores in his area if and when he buys more fish (he might be moving in a year - so probably won't buy more). After the first water change, I did call a local store in his area and had them check their GH so I knew how far down to go. His area does have hard water. This last change, I did use a little less RO Right. As all of you know, some additional minerals are needed. The water I take is indeed RO water - with minerals removed. I will probably keep doing water changes for him once a month (he can do more with Tap water if need be).

[Carl]

I found that using Chemi-Pure helped keep KH and pH stable, but I don't know the science why that works. Maybe it is just because Chemi-pure removed organics - saving the bio filter some work?

Actually this is a product I have performed controlled tests dating all the way back to the early 80s and it does in fact alter pH, considerably in marine tanks. This is in part due to altering Redox Balance.

This is not a product I would recommend

Fro Aquarium Answers; Filter Media:
"Boyd’s Chemi-Pure; this is a popular product that I must be missing something about it as I have used it several times in my maintenance business and have never quite seen this product meets its claims.
In fact in marine aquariums I have seen very unstable pH when this product is used.
I also have some problems with the claim by the manufacturer of “NO CLEANING - Necessary for health of fish”.
I personally feel very strongly about regular water changes even with products I recommend. This all said, I do know persons in this hobby whom I respect who like this product, so I will leave it at that.

Another key point is that the Aquarium Redox balance is substantially affected with the use of this product, so use with caution or add mineral cations to negate this side effect."

Reference:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/05/aquarium-filter-media.html

Updated with link to KH Booster - hope this is OK:
microbelift.com/products/pond-and-water-garden/chemical-water-treatments/kh-alkalinity-bio-active-booster/
Yes, it is "chemical"... but not a liquid product is what I meant, I guess. It is sold under pon supply, but works in home aquariums, too.

Hi Kevin,

Boosting KH will not change GH. Microbe Lift KH Booster isn't "chemical". It is something similar to baking soda (but NOT baking soda) -- just like raising pH with Alkaline buffer will not raise GH. GH tests mainly calcium and magnesium (and what other dissolved minerals? Carl can tell you). KH is carbonate hardness.

I didn't have a problem with the crushed coral raising my pH - until I started with the KH Booster. My son, however, had a problem when he used the crushed coral. I suspect he just used too much.

I started with just 1 tablespoon of crushed coral (I put it in my AquaClear 100 so I could easily remove it if pH rose too high). I monitored pH daily for a while. The crushed coral kept my KH around 3 degrees. Keep in mine, the local water supply was less than 2 degrees. Once I started using the RO water and Seachem buffers, the crushed coral kept the KH close to 4 degrees. According the dippy stick, my KH is now "ideal"... that is good enough for me. I haven't done an API test kit for a while. My goal was always to keep the KH around 4 degrees (or slightly higher).

To raise KH, this must be done with a carbonate or a bicarbonate. Without this your KH will not be affected.
If a product does not have these or has very little the KH will not be well buffered.

Crushed Coral has very little of these buffering agents

From the Aquarium Chemistry article (please give it a full read):

"Crushed Coral/Aragonite

Aragonite or crushed coral is sometimes employed for KH and GH stabilization, however aragonite and crushed coral (as with Wonder Shells) only aid to stabilize KH (they are poor buffers, especially crushed coral) and should not be used in place of a true KH buffer such as Sea Chem Alkaline Buffer when true buffering is necessary due to fluctuating KH or pH whatever the cause may be.

Crushed Coral is primarily made up of Calcium Carbonates (CaCO3) and has VERY LITTLE bicarbonates while Aragonite is of similar make up, but has a much better surface area for dissolving of minerals making it a better choice of the two.

Some Aragonites (that have high carbonate content) are useful at stabilizing a higher kH of around 240 ppm, which is the maximum KH (alkalinity) needed for Marine Aquariums, but does not respond to changes rapidly enough when carbonic acids are produced at a rapid rate in an aquarium (usually a high bio load or large amounts of organic mulm will cause this).
Even in marine aquariums with aragonite, this may not always be enough to maintain a proper alkalinity (KH) level, especially in tanks with high bio loads and without adequate water changes (even skimming can remove some elements).
Aragonite generally has a few more essential minerals in higher concentrations such as the important mineral (for corals), Strontium."

Carl

[Deleted]

Quoted from Carl:

>>>Crushed Coral is primarily made up of Calcium Carbonates (CaCO3) and has VERY LITTLE bicarbonates while Aragonite is of similar make up, but has a much better surface area for dissolving of minerals making it a better choice of the two.

Thanks Carl!

I saw a product (a new offering) on Drs. Foster and Smith a while back. I don't even recall the product name or company. I called the company and talked to an associate there - describing what I needed the product to do. He offered to send me some Aragonite for FREE and told me I really didn't need the product that was offered on Drs. Foster and Smith. Gosh, now I wish I had taken him up on the offer. Now that is a good company! I will have to go back and see if I can find the product again so I can write a Thank You letter.

As far as Boyd's Chemi Pure goes..... I still do water changes every two weeks - three weeks is the longest I have gone. Boyd's Chemi Pure will only help stabilize pH if all water parameters are watched. I had needed to add less Alkaline buffer to keep pH up since using Chemi-Pure. Now, I just add a bit of KH Booster which is more affordable -- and it does the same to keep KH in ideal range and pH up (close to 7.0 - pH is always 7.0 to 7.2). Boyd's Chemi Pure did very little to help keep pH and KH up in my son's 90 gallon.... but he wasn't checking it either. Now his girlfriend is taking over testing and treatments so my son can just enjoy the fish (he is swamped at work -- and she is looking for a job, a recent grad with a doctorate degree in neuroscience, so has time on her hands). I took the Chemi-Pure out of his filter and added another Nitra Zorb as the fish needed that more.

Boyd's now had a product just for salt water (something with Blue in the name?)-- so there are other who have had issues using Chemi Pure in salt water conditions.

Cheers,

Judy D.

[Carl]

Boyd's Chemi Pure will only help stabilize pH if all water parameters are watched.

This is not a pH stability product, in fact, its affect on Redox can affect pH in a way similar to the effect of photosynthesis has on pH when proper mineralization is not present.

As noted in my quote, there are professionals that swear by this product (I am not one), but these persons are also aware of the potential issues and adjust accordingly and do not just dump in the Boyd's Chemi Pure or Poly Pads without taking into account the negative affect on Redox

Carl

[Deleted]

Just a Quick note to Carl and All,

The company that was honest with me -- saving me from buying a product I really didn't need was CaribSea.
The associate offered to send me some FREE crushed coral with aragonite. I did thank him but told him that wouldn't be necessary. I can't find the product that caught my eye anywhere on Drs. Foster and Smith now -- but they do offer many other products from CaribSea. No... this post is not to promote buying from Drs. Foster and Smith... just to say the "new product" is no longer available there (it was "new" in 2011).

After some bad experience with other new-to-me products, I now call the company first to discuss the products and tell them what I use regularly to insure there are no contraindications. I posted information about ATM's Paradigm - but didn't use it until I heard back from the ATM. As I wrote in that post, I bought it just for fun (since my son and I both watch "Tanked".

As all of you know here... I read everything I could on Wonder Shells before trying them....and read everything on Methylene Blue before trying (both of those products purchased from AAP).

Cheers,

Judy D.

[Deleted]

Just a quick note for those who read my post about CaribSea (Great company although I never used their products -- smile)... The product I didn't need was/is called AragaMilk (I went to CaribSea site to try to find it).
The guy I spoke with wanted me to just keep doing what I was doing.... Basically, this product is more helpful when a higher pH is needed - marine tanks and African cichlids. The "Good Doctors" do still carry the product.... their web site search feature just isn't very good... I tried all sorts of searches -- even by company name.

Not promoting any product here.... just pointing out a company with good service (smile). Honesty always best policy. I dealt with one not so nice company -- but sure learned a lot from his "nasty" reply -- so am thankful for that, too.

[Carl]

CaribSea is definitely a good company.

I have used their products including substrates over the years. I note a few in the "Aquarium Chemistry article"

I also know of aquarium professionals that also use their products


Reference:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html

Carl