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Post by devonjohnsgard on Sept 19, 2014 16:40:08 GMT -5
The top of tube is just below surface, correct? If the sponge is 4" and tube is 18" (22" max) is that good in 27" of tank height? This would be fine. You would just have to order your 18'' tube separate. Note on lighting: I have an Aqueon 8000k T-8 that fits my current fixture. Is this improving the red and blue light values, reducing the yellow? And Im not sure what it is or how to tell if a lamp is actinic or 50/50? I may have missed the explanation on the lighting page you referenced. This is just a tad bit more blue and doesn't have to much yellow. I don't think this is horrible and I also think this is not the main cause to the BBA. It's the high Nitrates. I don't think it's actinic, cause thats really blue? I think.
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Sept 19, 2014 17:01:39 GMT -5
Devon: I thought rinsing in old aquarium water or at least de-chlorinated tap (via use of prime) protected the good bacteria? I'll take your suggestions tho and slow it down and alternate cleaning. I'll see whats needed for Hydro Sponge. I actually have a second air pump not being used. If I read you right, the waste isn't broken down in less than a week so vac will still work. I was just afraid if I left it in there, it would break down, then the bacteria would start cycling it and end up creating MORE nitrates. I'll keep using Algone and Purigen- maybe Im just being impatient. But I've been trying to knock this down from 200ppm since early july and Im still up around 160ppm, even after multiple water changes of 30%+. However I ran only that blue self-cut filter material for 3 weeks while I had the medicated W/S in so trashed that and started with new filter carts again recently. So add more filtration-not just keep the existing cleaner--and i'll have more areas for bene bacteria, and thus reduce nitrates? Thanks for both of your time and interest. I just think the sponge filter also is like the volcanic rock and Matrix, where they are highly poroses, which will allow for de-nitrification. I should also clarify that all the filters still need to be rinsed often, like you are thinking. It's the larger mulm that you are washing away (causing the Nitrates) and saving the good bacteria deep in the pores. www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/07/aquarium-nitrates.htmlAlso per this article. If you are doing water changes to cut Nitrates, they should be 60% water changes and only filling back up to 80%.
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Sept 19, 2014 18:28:32 GMT -5
Wow, smart- I wouldn't have thought to look on their site to see if they actually do the distilling. I know you can buy a 1 gal in grocery store, but maybe outsourced. I'll keep researching if distilled is the same as RO, but I don't think so either.
Thanks for Hydro-sponge idea, I'll add to all the rest using air pump. I knew a pre-filter sponge was gonna be tough on that lift tube. I think I'll try that for a month (if that is enough time to 'mature' them as you suggested) and if use of sponge, while still using Matrix, Purigen, and Algone doesn't drop the nitrates--that filter's got to GO! (And keep Hydro-Sponge as second filter like I've been reading in these forums).
And Carl- will do on the 25% in water changes--thanks for clarifying.
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Sept 19, 2014 18:39:35 GMT -5
Wow, smart- I wouldn't have thought to look on their site to see if they actually do the distilling. I know you can buy a 1 gal in grocery store, but maybe outsourced. I'll keep researching if distilled is the same as RO, but I don't think so either. Thanks for Hydro-sponge idea, I'll add to all the rest using air pump. I knew a pre-filter sponge was gonna be tough on that lift tube. I think I'll try that for a month (if that is enough time to 'mature' them as you suggested) and if use of sponge, while still using Matrix, Purigen, and Algone doesn't drop the nitrates--that filter's got to GO! (And keep Hydro-Sponge as second filter like I've been reading in these forums). And Carl- will do on the 25% in water changes--thanks for clarifying. This sounds like a good game plan. Let the HS get some build up on it (mature), then rinse it like once a week (per Carl's article) Keep us posted!
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Sept 19, 2014 19:03:34 GMT -5
I have to order, which will be from American Aquarium Products. So I need to get the Hydro-Sponge #5, a diffuser stone (separate?) and the 18" tube which is separate. And extra sponges? I read they should be changed every 6 months? My regular air pump is a Fluval 02, which I have a splitter and double flow regulator on. The pump I was thinking of using is an old Top Fin XP125 and just cap one side, or "y" into one tube to go into sponge. I think I changed this out originally because it didn't seem to be pushing as much. Guess I'll know if it works enough based on whether it pushes water out the top of the tube- yes?
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Sept 20, 2014 13:52:10 GMT -5
I have to order, which will be from American Aquarium Products. So I need to get the Hydro-Sponge #5, a diffuser stone (separate?) and the 18" tube which is separate. And extra sponges? I read they should be changed every 6 months? My regular air pump is a Fluval 02, which I have a splitter and double flow regulator on. The pump I was thinking of using is an old Top Fin XP125 and just cap one side, or "y" into one tube to go into sponge. I think I changed this out originally because it didn't seem to be pushing as much. Guess I'll know if it works enough based on whether it pushes water out the top of the tube- yes? A air diffuser will come with the 18'' lift tube. I'm thinking that air pump should work fine. If it's not enough, just plumb the two lines into one. You would know just if there is a good amount of bubbles. If you really want to see, you can drop a little MB at the tube of the tube and watch it slowly be drawn into the filter... Yes replace about every 6 months and rinse every week or two.
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Sept 20, 2014 17:07:35 GMT -5
l'll keep you posted. Thanks for the input. Kevin
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Post by Carl on Sept 22, 2014 9:53:01 GMT -5
oh, and is distilled Arrowhead water gonna be the same as using Reverse Osmosis water? Use would be similar, except that DI (distilled) water is even more pure and generally will be 100% neutral with no mineral electrolytes whatsever, this is why DI water is what should be used for topping off automotive batteries only (not RO) Here is a quote from Aquarium Answers; Use of DI/RO water: "*DI Unit; most commercially available DI units are simply a RO unit with an additional DI canister/chamber following the RO membrane (API makes a basic DI only unit though). This chamber utilizes resins that further remove TDS from water. With this system, you can achieve 0 mineral cations and a TDS of 0 after starting with tap water over 250 TDS, while this same tap water run through a RO only unit would generally result in about 7 TDS.
For my purposes I found that a RO only unit was/is more than adequate, however if you are making water for extremely sensitive purposes (such as a car battery), a DI/RO unit may be the better choice for you over a RO only unit. The reason is much of what the additional DI chamber removes is mineral cations (electrolytes), which is why DI water is better for a car battery, but these few mineral cations missed by RO only units are not a problem for any freshwater or saltwater aquarium and in fact these are generally beneficial. As well the operating costs of DI chambers are very high as I have had to replace the resins in these chambers as frequently as once per week with some units under high use. The bottom line is to NOT believe the hype some sellers of Four Stage RO/DI units put forth and save your money (both initially and ongoing) and purchase a RO only Water systems.
Another method to prepare DI Water is to distil the water by boiling then collecting the condensation of this water (AKA distilling). "Reference: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2006/12/how-do-fish-drink.html#reverse_osmosisCarl
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Sept 23, 2014 14:34:23 GMT -5
I do remember reading that. I guess my dilemma is for only a little RO water in 25% of a change is a couple gallons so if I didn't get all that equipment, I was looking for low (er) cost alternative but I get your point on the DI and lack of minerals etc. If my parameters in general are ok, Im not sure if there is a mid-level solution, vs all or nothing. Buying a couple gallons of something to "cut" tap would be great so I research if I can get small amounts of RO water somewhere. Gonna keep working on Hydro Sponge and nitrate issue as priority. If anyone has a suggestion how to get the above- Im open to it.
Thx, Kevin
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Post by Carl on Sept 23, 2014 16:15:09 GMT -5
If I correctly understand your post, you feel it is too much investment for an RO or DI unit. If so, I totally agree!!
I have had many customers over the years who simply went do a local store and just purchased water a gallon or 5 gallons at a time. I know some communities have "water stores" that allow you to refill your container for as little as .25 cents per gallon
Carl
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Sept 23, 2014 16:27:38 GMT -5
I do remember reading that. I guess my dilemma is for only a little RO water in 25% of a change is a couple gallons so if I didn't get all that equipment, I was looking for low (er) cost alternative but I get your point on the DI and lack of minerals etc. If my parameters in general are ok, Im not sure if there is a mid-level solution, vs all or nothing. Buying a couple gallons of something to "cut" tap would be great so I research if I can get small amounts of RO water somewhere. Gonna keep working on Hydro Sponge and nitrate issue as priority. If anyone has a suggestion how to get the above- Im open to it. Thx, Kevin You can just purchase it and add your own minerals. Wondershell or Replenish.
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Sept 23, 2014 16:56:55 GMT -5
Yes exactly, so thats why I was asking about buying DI in gallon. Have you heard of RO being sold by gal or 5gal? I re-read article that you quoted from Carl and you mentioned "drinking water is basically RO with a couple of minerals added for taste" otherwise its stripped of the good stuff for fish. I feel like Im beating this subject to death-and I apologize for seeming like I keep asking the same question. Devon- purchase RO? Distilled? or Drinking? and I already use wondershells (altho I did start splitting the large into 3, using one until done. GH is still 300+) Does the quantity of wondershell change because Im adding 25% of the above water in a blended water change? Or leave that the same and use Replenish in the water change bucket with Prime?
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Post by Carl on Sept 23, 2014 18:11:09 GMT -5
These water stores I mentioned sell RO water, otherwise you likely will need to purchase DI water. Drinking water is not bad, you just do not know what minerals have been added and what have not, so I would prefer DI over drinking water, but would not rule it out either. I would add the Replenish to the RO/DI water and the Wonder Shell in the same quantity as with tap water only. Further Reference: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2006/12/how-do-fish-drink.htmlI just added more clarity to the above "Aquarium Answers" article.Carl
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Sept 23, 2014 20:49:45 GMT -5
That helps. Thanks so much. I'll keep you posted on the RO water adventure.
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Post by angelminx on Sept 25, 2014 2:23:56 GMT -5
We don't have any "water stores" around here; I think Walmart sells "bulk" water, but I think it's probably just "regular" drinking water. The only LFS near-by (a new one, in the same town where I live) deals mostly in hobby supplies and salt water fish, but they do sell RO water by the gallon. You might check if there's one anywhere near where you live.
Angelminx
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Oct 9, 2014 22:14:16 GMT -5
Before I submit my order for sponge filter, plus replenish for my 25% cut with RO water- Im still a little confused on buffering. Im ordering Alkaline buffer to raise my KH from 40-80 to 200 or so (or is the Malawi buffer better?) and my ph up from 6.8-7.2 or so to 7.6 or 7.8. But with having such a current high GH (over 300) my understanding is I dont want the extra hardness from using the Malawi product. Please advise on this???
Then by using the KH buffer, will that bring those numbers up and stay there, or do I still need to add wood or something as acid buffer? And why am I reducing if I just added product to raise?
I get the "dont chase numbers" concept, and shoot for stability, but In re reading this thread as well as the articles on KH/GH/PH, I do need to raise these...Correct?
Just trying to get all the stuff in the one order. Still trying to get nitrates down, but looks like I lost some KH in this process. Still using Algone, Purigen, and two cartridges of Matrix (only been in there 3-4 wks so prob not seeded yet).
Just trying to get all this straight in my head before pulling the trigger on it. Please confirm the above when you guys get a chance. Thanks. Glad to be back.
Kevin
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Post by Carl on Oct 10, 2014 9:13:21 GMT -5
Based on what you are trying to achieve, along with the fact you are only cutting 25% of the water with RO, I would suggest the Alkaline Buffer. The Malawi Buffer will definitely add to GH, so if already using Replenish in the RO along with Wonder Shells for mineral Cations, this would not be needed or desired unless your goal is a tank with high mineral content such as for Rift Lake Cichlids or Livebearers.
As for the Nitrates, it does take at least 8 weeks for Matrix to mature (the anaerobic aspect is the last to mature) Even Algone is not a quick answer, since it too does not absorb nitrates, rather provides natural source of food for bacterium and also contain enzymes that slowly digest organic waster in the water column. Purigen does immediately remove nitrates, but the issue is capacity since this is not Purigen's main selling point is water polishing and has limited nitrate absorbing capacity in the average volumes used. Recharging the Purigen more often can help.
Carl
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 10, 2014 9:24:50 GMT -5
Before I submit my order for sponge filter, plus replenish for my 25% cut with RO water- Im still a little confused on buffering. Im ordering Alkaline buffer to raise my KH from 40-80 to 200 or so (or is the Malawi buffer better?) and my ph up from 6.8-7.2 or so to 7.6 or 7.8. But with having such a current high GH (over 300) my understanding is I dont want the extra hardness from using the Malawi product. Please advise on this??? Then by using the KH buffer, will that bring those numbers up and stay there, or do I still need to add wood or something as acid buffer? And why am I reducing if I just added product to raise? I get the "dont chase numbers" concept, and shoot for stability, but In re reading this thread as well as the articles on KH/GH/PH, I do need to raise these...Correct? Just trying to get all the stuff in the one order. Still trying to get nitrates down, but looks like I lost some KH in this process. Still using Algone, Purigen, and two cartridges of Matrix (only been in there 3-4 wks so prob not seeded yet). Just trying to get all this straight in my head before pulling the trigger on it. Please confirm the above when you guys get a chance. Thanks. Glad to be back. Kevin Im not the best at buffers, cause I don't have to use them. This might help: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html#tipsThere is other suggestions on how to use this buffers in this article too. www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html#khbuffers
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Oct 10, 2014 20:43:27 GMT -5
Thanks Carl and Devon, That answers on the buffers. Do I still need an acid buffer? wood? or other? or just use the alkaline to bring up?
Im think I might be finally getting some of this. Interesting on the Algone, I have been putting two of the small packets in and in about 1 1/2 wk, they'd be blown up tight, which I thought was nitrogenous waste (nitrates). Since it cant be re-charged, Ive just been replacing them but it hasn't really moved my nitrate numbers. My Purigen packet isn't really dark yet- not sure how long to leave in there before re-charge?? I think Im going to have to bite the bullet and do as Devon (and your article) suggested with the 60% water change with 80% refill so max a water replacement because even tho he's lived in this state for a while (17 yrs?), I havent been able to bring the nitrates down. I have high hopes for the addition of sponge filter adding better bio filtration as well.
The good news is his tail fin and others have fully grown back in and I think because of using the wondershells for mineral cations, his HITH has seemed to shrink and divots appear more shallow. He also is back to totally re arranging the gravel in big pile in corner which he hadn't done in a while.
He has started doing something weird tho. He floats around facing up then POPS out of the water and smacks his lips on the under glass lid. There isn't really much algae there so not sure what hes hitting the glass for. He does seem to chill if I turn the light back off. Curious if you guys have seen that.
Anyway, not sure if I need acid buffer so will on that piece of info before ordering. Thanks, Kevin
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kevin
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Post by kevin on Oct 10, 2014 20:59:39 GMT -5
Devon Great link to "Quick tips for adding buffers". I remember seeing that before but hadn't seen it recently. I think the piece on weekly or biweekly is what I need so that would answer the question on needing acid buffer. And "Desired KH raises Ph to undesirable level" also indicates (after RO 25%) that again no need for acid buffer.
Fabulous. You guys rock.
Kevin
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