want to ensure a newly cycled tank is saprolegnia-free

[Deleted]

I'm in the process of cycling a 5.5G tank fish-free. I started with @ 1/3 established water plus sponge but also added @ a tablespoon of fish food. Cycling has been proceeding fine, but after adding the fish food I noticed this notation in Carl's article on Cycling using the Fish Food Method, which talks about the possibility of introducing saprolegnia via fish food:

"The only risk of the fish food method is the possibility of Saprolegnia (mold) growing on rotting fish food which can become pathogenic to new fish that will be introduced later. This is easily avoided with a fish flake food by powdering it between fingers before introduction to the aquarium (shaking fish flake food in a cup of water can also accomplish this). This risk is relatively small and basically non-existent when you use an easily “liquefied” fish flake food."

The food I added was a combo of OmegaOne micro pellets and Tetra FD Bloodworms which I suspended in the tank in a fine mesh bag and as they softened, squeezed the bag to release matter into the tank. So while I didn't just drop flakes or chunks of food loose into the tank, I also don't want to just assume that it amounted to liquid or powder either, so the concern being that fragments might have settled out, started rotting. The tank has been sitting undisturbed now for 2 weeks.

My question is, is there is some action or treatment I could do now to ensure that my tank will be saprolegnia-free and safe for fish?

I did read the article on Saprolegnia and treatment options, though I think these are geared more to treating fish vs a tank. Perhaps my approach should be a medication? but I would love some input before I make that call.

Please note: The tank is fish-free and can stay that way for as long as it takes to ensure it's good to go, so that's not a factor that should affect what is a suitable treatment. I may choose to divide the water/media from this tank to start another 5.5G also, or towards cycling a much larger tank, don't know yet.

Thanks!

[Carl]

The key is this quote from the article:
"This risk is relatively small and basically non-existent when you use an easily “liquefied” fish flake food."

It is decaying food on the substrate of your aquarium that increases the risk of Saprolegnia, however by liquifying the food and suspending it isn the water column, this risk is pretty much non existent.
In fact, I have never documented a Saprolegnia outbreak as long as the food is liquified

Carl

[Deleted]

Aug 30, 2014 13:46:35 GMT -5 Carl said:

The key is this quote from the article:
"This risk is relatively small and basically non-existent when you use an easily “liquefied” fish flake food."

It is decaying food on the substrate of your aquarium that increases the risk of Saprolegnia, however by liquifying the food and suspending it isn the water column, this risk is pretty much non existent.
In fact, I have never documented a Saprolegnia outbreak as long as the food is liquified

Carl

To be super clear, it was not that I 'liquified' the food in the water and was worried that it settled out etc.. The food was softening in the bag in the tank and when I squeezed it, there were heavy particles that fell to the substrate quite quickly. It's those I was concerned about. IF that was clear and it's that you feel these would liquify vs sit and rot, then that's great and I won't worry.

Sorry but I feel the need to confirm because I'm presuming you wouldn't necessarily have visible fungus in the tank in order to have a problem...?  And I really want to be sure.

How about.. suppose you had a concern, what would be your recommended course of action?

Thanks again

[Carl]

The food was softening in the bag in the tank and when I squeezed it, there were heavy particles that fell to the substrate quite quickly. It's those I was concerned about. IF that was clear and it's that you feel these would liquify vs sit and rot, then that's great and I won't worry.

Normally I would fully liquify the food in a container (such as a small container with a lid so that it could be shaken well).

Likely a few small particles would not be a concern, as it is the larger rotting pieces that I have documented to cause problems, and even then this is not always the case, which is why the misguided "raw shrimp" cycling method gained some traction because of the postings of of an unfortunately popular but often highly inaccurate internet forum.

Carl

[Deleted]

Aug 31, 2014 11:12:41 GMT -5 Carl said:

The food was softening in the bag in the tank and when I squeezed it, there were heavy particles that fell to the substrate quite quickly. It's those I was concerned about. IF that was clear and it's that you feel these would liquify vs sit and rot, then that's great and I won't worry.

Normally I would fully liquify the food in a container (such as a small container with a lid so that it could be shaken well).

Likely a few small particles would not be a concern, as it is the larger rotting pieces that I have documented to cause problems, and even then this is not always the case, which is why the misguided "raw shrimp" cycling method gained some traction because of the postings of of an unfortunately popular but often highly inaccurate internet forum.

Carl

This of course is why I and so many others stick with your site and forum. There's a lot of misinformation offered up online as fact by well-intentioned souls who believe what they're sharing, but unfortunately it's based on anecdotal evidence or faulty conclusions. With you, we know we can count on reliable information backed by sound expertise and that is so hard to find, and very appreciated!  

In the future I will definitely do as you say and start with a completely liquified mixture. Makes perfect sense when you understand the risk.

It sounds like I'm likely AOK in this situation, but since I'm not in any hurry to add fish.. I'm thinking perhaps it wouldn't hurt to just give the tank a round of treatment with Pimafix, perhaps Fungus Cure as a prophylactic measure before I go forward... unless you  would recommend something different?

Thanks again Carl

p.s. it's Labour Day weekend.. long weekend here (Canada) and I trust there as well. I hope you're getting to enjoy the weekend and not being tied to work and the computer the whole time! Go play! lol

[Carl]

This of course is why I and so many others stick with your site and forum. There's a lot of misinformation offered up online as fact by well-intentioned souls who believe what they're sharing, but unfortunately it's based on anecdotal evidence or faulty conclusions. With you, we know we can count on reliable information backed by sound expertise and that is so hard to find, and very appreciated!

Thanks for the compliment!

Sadly, the group I am referring to (Fish Lore) readily comes up in Google for several search inquiries, worse, Devon joined the group about a year ago and posted a few links to our articles to back up points made by him and others concerned about facts going forward and was banned for life for this (with all messages to Admins going unanswered).
So sadly this is a group that is most definitely NOT interested in facts/truth, and is a reason I personally am so frustrated with the direction of this hobby.

It sounds like I'm likely AOK in this situation, but since I'm not in any hurry to add fish.. I'm thinking perhaps it wouldn't hurt to just give the tank a round of treatment with Pimafix, perhaps Fungus Cure as a prophylactic measure before I go forward... unless you would recommend something different?

Either, the Pimafix, Fungus Cure or Medicated Wonder Shell would be a good choice, followed by a small water change

p.s. it's Labour Day weekend.. long weekend here (Canada) and I trust there as well. I hope you're getting to enjoy the weekend and not being tied to work and the computer the whole time! Go play! lol

Thanks for your concern.
We are all working a 1/2 day or less, myself included.

Carl

[Carl]

This of course is why I and so many others stick with your site and forum. There's a lot of misinformation offered up online as fact by well-intentioned souls who believe what they're sharing, but unfortunately it's based on anecdotal evidence or faulty conclusions. With you, we know we can count on reliable information backed by sound expertise and that is so hard to find, and very appreciated!

Thanks for the compliment!

Sadly, the group I am referring to (Fish Lore) readily comes up in Google for several search inquiries (another reason I do not use Google), worse, Devon joined the group about a year ago and posted a few links to our articles to back up points made by him and others concerned about facts going forward and was banned for life for this (with all messages to Admins going unanswered).
So sadly this is a group that is most definitely NOT interested in facts/truth, and is a reason I personally am so frustrated with the direction of this hobby.

It sounds like I'm likely AOK in this situation, but since I'm not in any hurry to add fish.. I'm thinking perhaps it wouldn't hurt to just give the tank a round of treatment with Pimafix, perhaps Fungus Cure as a prophylactic measure before I go forward... unless you would recommend something different?

Either, the Pimafix, Fungus Cure or Medicated Wonder Shell would be a good choice, followed by a small water change

p.s. it's Labour Day weekend.. long weekend here (Canada) and I trust there as well. I hope you're getting to enjoy the weekend and not being tied to work and the computer the whole time! Go play! lol

Thanks for your concern.
We are all working a 1/2 day or less, myself included.

Carl

[Deleted]

QUOTE:
Sadly, the group I am referring to (Fish Lore) readily comes up in Google for several search inquiries (another reason I do not use Google), worse, Devon joined the group about a year ago and posted a few links to our articles to back up points made by him and others concerned about facts going forward and was banned for life for this (with all messages to Admins going unanswered).
So sadly this is a group that is most definitely NOT interested in facts/truth, and is a reason I personally am so frustrated with the direction of this hobby.

Well, Devon is more than welcome on my site.. for life! Not that I have a site.. but if i did..   

Be grateful for inferior competition, they make you look good!

Re: the direction of this hobby, you're a part of that and your contributions have enormous positive impact, so I say ignore the rest and seize the day!

Thanks again for your help


seapetal111/Maggie

[devonjohnsgard]

Good conversion. I learned from it, so thanks for asking. I was thinking you could just vacuum out any large fish food pieces that you saw, but it looks like there is little to worry about. The meds would be a good just in case.

ps. thanks for letting me be in the cool club and play on your site

[Carl]

Be grateful for inferior competition, they make you look good!

Re: the direction of this hobby, you're a part of that and your contributions have enormous positive impact, so I say ignore the rest and seize the day!

Good Points!

However the problem with recent Google algorithm changes poor quality content that was once buried now comes up well ahead of my content.
Example: type in "melafix dangers" into Google and an awful highly inaccurate misinformation article from Fish Lore comes up first.
Try this same search in DuckDuckGo and the results are entirely different, but unfortunately Google get many times the number of searches that DuckDuckgo gets.

Hence, even if I ignore this, many are still going to read this and many other articles such as a bad one about UV Sterilizer and raw shrimp use.
This results in misinformation being treated as facts, I see this now daily in dealing with misinformation about aquarium lighting whereby I, Devon, & Steven have to deal with vile posts in other forums or blog/email comments.

Carl

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 10:07:35 GMT -5 Carl said:

Be grateful for inferior competition, they make you look good!

Re: the direction of this hobby, you're a part of that and your contributions have enormous positive impact, so I say ignore the rest and seize the day!

Good Points!

However the problem with recent Google algorithm changes poor quality content that was once buried now comes up well ahead of my content.
Example: type in "melafix dangers" into Google and an awful highly inaccurate misinformation article from Fish Lore comes up first.
Try this same search in DuckDuckGo and the results are entirely different, but unfortunately Google get many times the number of searches that DuckDuckgo gets.

Hence, even if I ignore this, many are still going to read this and many other articles such as a bad one about UV Sterilizer and raw shrimp use.
This results in misinformation being treated as facts, I see this now daily in dealing with misinformation about aquarium lighting whereby I, Devon, & Steven have to deal with vile posts in other forums or blog/email comments.

Carl

I'm really not familiar with how search engines work and how you get your link to show up first, but I don't believe credibility of content has anything to do with it. I talked to some guys recently who do web design and site management as I need to think about getting a website myself and that area is a question mark for me.. and they said 'likes' on Face Book are a huge factor, plus they have functions they can do.. there's a name for it, sorry.. forgot...  but of course it costs. Still perhaps it would be worth your while to talk to such a company and see what's involved. Maybe it's business investment that would make sense for you.

[parker002]

It's called SEO - search engine optimization - and it's a marketing scheme more than anything else. If you have money and wherewithal, you can get your site thousands of hits, even if you're selling snake oil.

[Carl]

Sept 3, 2014 6:53:20 GMT -5 parker002 said:

It's called SEO - search engine optimization - and it's a marketing scheme more than anything else. If you have money and wherewithal, you can get your site thousands of hits, even if you're selling snake oil.

Exactly!

I am quite familiar with SEO and I am a member of several SEO forums, and have been since 2005, following every "white hat" SEO rule. In fact I have spent 1000s of hours in SEO of my website, including pursuing Facebook likes.

The problem is Google no longer practices what they preach and simply give the highest ranks to those paying the most, hence Amazon coming up with products unrelated to scientific search inquiries.
I have documented many tricks that Google has used, including Adwords manipulation.

As parker noted, snake oil can come up to the top of Google searches, Google is NOT about quality of content.

The simple fact is DuckDuckGo is more of what Google used to be, a real search engine

here are just a few recent documentations, including how many Google SEO forums are now run by minions of Google with no interest in facts:
www.myopinions-carl.com/2013/09/amazon-google-in-bed-search-adwords.html
www.myopinions-carl.com/2014/01/google-adwords-manipulation-of-results.html
www.fish-as-pets.com/2012/05/google-is-evil-content-plagiarism.html
www.myopinions-carl.com/2014/01/google-webmaster-forums-crawling.html


Carl

[angelminx]

I don't remember if it was Google that I was on, but not long ago I was entering Everything Aquatic into the search engine, and the order of appearance was completely different than it was the last time (earlier the same day), and then again in the evening it changed order again. Sometimes the Home Page was 1st, sometimes the forum. and another time the forum itself was like the 3rd or 4th item on the list. Another time, the (?)fish store Everything Aquatic was the first on the list.

[Deleted]

Sept 3, 2014 9:39:50 GMT -5 Carl said:

Sept 3, 2014 6:53:20 GMT -5 parker002 said:

It's called SEO - search engine optimization - and it's a marketing scheme more than anything else. If you have money and wherewithal, you can get your site thousands of hits, even if you're selling snake oil.

Exactly!
I am quite familiar with SEO and I am a member of several SEO forums, and have been since 2005, following every "white hat" SEO rule. In fact I have spent 1000s of hours in SEO of my website, including pursuing Facebook likes.

Yes, SEO is the term the web designers told me. They weren't trying to sell me, just telling me. And I do recall they said it wasn't a one-time fix, has to be constantly revisited, so that's where having a million bucks would come in handy

You're all way more educated on this than I am! Kinda, no.. very sad and wrong that marketing your business seems to have become a digital 'popularity' contest. I'm also looking at starting a business via online sales and I can't wait indefinitely for sales while I build my fan list on FB! Even then, the known return on advertising hits is only 1%. You need A LOT of people to land on your site before you collect a dollar.  Wonder what the answer is......?!!!!!

[goldenpuon]

I definitely agree that Duckduckgo is better than Google in regard to quality of information (especially regarding fish and Carl's articles). I also personally find it returns more relevant information than Google when I am doing web searches at times. Regarding SEO, I have not used it much despite being an IT major, but I heard that Google uses a very complex algorithm that involves linear algebra. So I don't think it's that easy to predict what will show up for a certain search unless you visit a certain website a lot. Web sites that Google's algorithm determines might interest you appear first in search result although there's an option to turn that off I believe. That's another aspect of Google that is troubling, they collect all kinds of information about users to use in advertising and showing ads from search queries to personal data. As Carl noted, advertising is driving Google more than it should. Likes and shares on Facebook and other social networks can make a website show first in results in search engines and in suggested interests on social networking websites like Facebook. That makes money for a business with an online presence through both clicks on ads on the site and more business because more people are likely to see the website.

I hope this explains a bit more about the topic. And also, please like or share American Aquarium Products and Fish as Pets articles. As explained above regarding the SEO, that not only helps support Carl's business and this forum, but helps spread the accurate information in all the articles Carl has written as well.

That said, apologies that my post probably got this thread steered even more off topic from its original topic of cycling and the adding of fish food.

Renee

[angelminx]

I've found, that for some reason, when I type in an ADDRESS--through IE, anyway--that it is rarely the 1st thing in the list that shows up, sometimes as far down as 3rd or 4th!

[angelminx]

I hate to keep this thread away from the subject (like Seapetal said), but I've noticed that when I try to use Firefox to search for things, that to the left of the search bar (underneath the big Firefox logo) it says GOOGLE!!! I thought Firefox was a separate entity/search engine!

Is it like that with everyone, or did someone hack my computer? I didn't notice it before, but then, I wasn't paying attention.

[Carl]

Sept 8, 2014 1:17:36 GMT -5 angelminx said:

I hate to keep this thread away from the subject (like Seapetal said), but I've noticed that when I try to use Firefox to search for things, that to the left of the search bar (underneath the big Firefox logo) it says GOOGLE!!! I thought Firefox was a separate entity/search engine!

Is it like that with everyone, or did someone hack my computer? I didn't notice it before, but then, I wasn't paying attention.

Unless you are opening a separate tab in your browser to a specific search engine, in searches in your url address bar will go through your default search engine, which likely is Google.

Remember that Fire fox is free and it is likely Google paid to be the default search engine when downloaded.

My brother is employed in computer security and as told me and my kids many times that as with other things in life, nothing is truly free.
These free downloads that are all over the internet are loaded with "stuff" that downloads into your computer when you agree to download. Many are not necessarily malicious such as simply changing your default search engine.

Carl

[devonjohnsgard]

Sept 8, 2014 1:17:36 GMT -5 angelminx said:

I hate to keep this thread away from the subject (like Seapetal said), but I've noticed that when I try to use Firefox to search for things, that to the left of the search bar (underneath the big Firefox logo) it says GOOGLE!!! I thought Firefox was a separate entity/search engine!

Is it like that with everyone, or did someone hack my computer? I didn't notice it before, but then, I wasn't paying attention.

They are separate, you might just have Google set as the default search for the browser under the internet options?