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Post by angelminx on Jun 16, 2014 17:49:43 GMT -5
It's back! Today when I went to give my angel and cory their swab/bath I noticed that the cyanobacteria is starting to come back.
Today's tank (55 gallon) parameters are: pH: 7.5 KH: 4 degrees GH: 17 degrees Ammonia: 0 (actually it tests at just over 0, but I use AmQuel Plus and NovAqua Plus) Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 10 Phosphate: 0.1 mg/l (this is approximate because since I broke the test tube with my Elos phosphate test kit, I've been mixing the required 10 ml of water sample in a larger test tube, then when I am ready to read the results, I pour 5 ml into an API test tube and read the results that way--you have to look down through the tube to compare the colors) Oxygen: 12 ppm CO2: (I have a CO2 indicator that I got from AAP) is showing green (?) (The color is really faded; I just changed the solution last week), while before it always showed blue Temp: 79 degrees (the last week or so it has been 78.7 degrees) [the room temp is 78.9 and outside is 87, but it is supposed to top around 90 degrees--we are just getting into a heat wave, where temps a supposed to be in the 90s]
Tap water parameters (after sitting for 19 1/2 hrs--I just tested yesterday, and did a 2 gallon top-off 4 days ago--I did the same today, because of the baths, after I did my testing); pH: 8.0 (for some reason, the longer it sits, the higher it goes; I pulled the sample before I went to bed, and tested it the next afternoon--I didn't get home till after 2 PM) KH: 5 degrees GH: 8 degrees Ammonia: 0.375 Nitrite: 0.5 Nitrate: 5 Phosphate I didn't check, but has always read over 1 mg/l
The current filter is a Whisper 60 with a Filter Max pre-filter that I rinse with every water change. The Whisper has both the foam inserts (which I also rinse with every water change--rinsing is always done in used tank water) and the Bio Bags (which I like for their versatility), that I change (alternately) every 3 weeks of so, but rinse in between. I also wipe down the out-flow and clean out the tube. Tonight I am planning on doing a 9 gallon water change and will break down the filter and clean the whole thing--which I don't do that often. [BTW I had my XP2 running before, but the motor died and I haven't "fixed" it yet, so I had started running the Whisper, and have a few of the old Bio Bags left--I re-ordered some more, but haven't received them yet, and I read in Carl's article that their quality isn't as good]. I also have a Discard-A-Stone on the opposite side of the tank, as well as 2 150W Jager heaters.
The cyanobacteria is on a couple of the fine leaves on one water sprite on the left side of the tank (I plucked those leaves); on the top section of the hornwort (I lightly wrap a plant anchor near the bottom of the plant to hold it in place, otherwise it gets itself horribly wrapped around my other plants), which is towards the left side of the tank--there is also a "slick" at the surface around the hornwort; and finally, for some reason all over the 2 watersprite that are next to the air stone (this always happens by the air stone). I pulled those water sprite and the hornwort and rinsed them off then, under running water, lightly rubbed them to remove any CB that was on them, and rinsed again. I netted up the slick, and used the Quick Vac all over the tank before returning the plants. I also removed the Breeder Net (while the fish were in their bath) and took it apart and soaked it in bleach water, scrubbed it with a (dedicated) nail brush, then let them soak in AmQuel Plus neutralized water for 5 minutes before putting it back together and putting it back in the tank.
As I mentionened before, in another thread, I am always cash-strapped and cannot afford to make changes all at once. Carl said that I may be having a problem with aeromonas in my gravel (Fluorite), so I am going to be swapping it out for Onyx Sand--to help with my unstable KH problems?--(if I can find it somewhere where it's not going to cost an arm and a leg--the shipping is the worst part and Petco and Petsmart don't carry it, and there are no LFSs in my area), and some (hopefully) dark/black #3 or #5 gravel. It was also suggested that I get a UV sterilizer (I'd like to get Carl's custom model) and switch over to LEDs. Again, money is the problem.
BTW, I for got to mention that my lighting iis supplied by a double-strip strip light with an Aqua-Glo T-8 40W (18,000K--that's the only "regular" bulb the they had--I have another that I bought at the same time as a repacement) in front, and an Aqueon Floramax T-8 32W (with one more replacement) in the back "slot". They were last changed on 10/8/'13 (Aqua-Glo) and 10/19/'13 (Florama).
I'd really like to get rid of the recurring (usually 2 or 3 times per year), but don't know what to do about it, especially when I can't afford to make all the recommented changes. Any suggestions would be appreiciated. Thanks.
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Post by parker002 on Jun 16, 2014 17:55:04 GMT -5
If you're having trouble with cyanobacteria (aka "green water") the best thing you can do is get a UV sterilizer. You certainly can make other changes but nothing will prevent blue-green blooms better than UV.
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Post by angelminx on Jun 16, 2014 18:19:18 GMT -5
Thanks, Parker. I did have a "geen-water" bloom a few years ago (where the water was so geen you could hardly see through it), before I started recording info, but I do remember that it happened in January. The 55 was the only tank that was affected, but I still think that that case had something to do with the source water. It finally died out after about a month, but every time I added new water (before it did) the bloom would get stronger, no matter what I did.
This problem is actually the slimy blue-green stuff. One time, (back in 2009), when I had been in a nursing home for 3 months, and my Mom was supposededly taking care of the fish for me, when I finally got back home, the bottom of the tank was COVERED with CB (other areas as well) and most of the plants were nearly dead.
BTW when I gave the info an my tank, I forgot to add that I keep the lights on a timer for 10 1/2 hrs/day, and I keep a half of a medium wonder shell in there--I just put a new one in 3 days ago. Interestingly, for some reason (I noticed this first in my quarantine tank after medicating it and finishing off the treatment; I had done the water change and put new carbon and Purigen in the filter) debris seems to congregate around the shell. I noticed because there was a bunch of it sitting on top of the shell, and I always get more from that area when vacuuming. Has anyone else noticed this?
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Post by Carl on Jun 16, 2014 18:29:33 GMT -5
Besides the UV as Parker noted, make sure your lights are on for a 10-12 hours cycle as I noted in another thread. Also, as Fluorescent lamps degrade, their light becomes more and more yellow, and this is just the light that Cyanobacteria needs, so make sure your lamps are replaced at least once per year as per our lighting article: From the lighting article: "ANY fluorescent light used for aquarium applications such as planted aquariums or reef, slowly burns up phosphors and other rare earth elements that produce the light energy necessary for PUR. As with a UVC bulb/lamp used for a UV Sterilizer, these lights go through a "half life", meaning that a light that is run 12 hours per day that may last 2 years (as per rated life) should be actually replaced every year otherwise these lamps are running at 50% and less of initial light energy production and then often producing much more yellow light that is inducing to more algae and cyanobacteria growth in particular."Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html#lighttimeSince your lamps appear to be recently replaced, I would suggest a higher kelvin lamp, say 10,000K or to upgrde to a T5, T2, or AquaBar or GroBeam LED when you can afford Product resources: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/LEDLights.htmlwww.americanaquariumproducts.com/LEDOther.html#aquabarPlease also read: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2006/07/blue-green-algae-in-aquariums.htmlCarl
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Post by Carl on Jun 16, 2014 18:41:39 GMT -5
Yes, this is common when there is something driving off the calcium from the Wonder Shells, often the use of water softener water or Neutral Regulators. Do you use any water from a water softener using sodium chloride or potassium chloride? Here is a quote from my Chemistry Article (KH Section): "I should also note that I do NOT find the use of Neutral pH regulators helpful for community aquariums. A more natural balance of carbonate buffers and acid buffers (or a mix both natural or supplemented buffers) is much better for long term keeping of a healthy aquarium chemistry equilibrium. These products often use phosphates which are not a healthy way to neutralize pH/KH, and in fact these products drive out ESSENTIAL calcium and magnesium ions!!
If an aquarium keeper finds a neutral regulator the only way to stabilize an aquarium pH/KH, this indicates that there are likely too many acid producing organics such as mulm in canister filters (especially in ceramic media) or under gravel, decor, etc. in the aquarium. Another proof of this unnatural stability is if a Wonder Shell is used, it will produce a "dust" on the bottom that is easily stirred into a cloud in the water (due to phosphates in these products). The bottom line is the use of Neutral Regulators such as API Proper pH 7 is not a healthy nor natural way to maintain good aquarium chemistry and my years of maintaining many 100's of aquariums has born this out!"Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html#khCarl
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Post by angelminx on Jun 17, 2014 1:40:07 GMT -5
As far as I know, no water softeners are used. I live in apartment, but I don't think they, or the city, add anything. The only additives I use are AmQuel Plus, NovAqua Plus, I just switched to Stability (from a bottle I'd just purchased--and I just read your post to me on my bio-additives thread so am dumping what I had before), Seachem's KH Buffer and their Flourish products: 1 capful daily of both Iron and Excel, and every third day 1 capful Flourish, 2 of Potassium (the following day, and the day after that:) 3 of Trace. When I do a water change I only add the Iron and Excel, and wait a couple days before starting to add the others. I also have Nitrogen and Phosphorus, but I only add those if my numbers get real low. I just recently added a "dose" of the Flourish "root tabs", the last of what I had. (Speaking of which, it would be nice if AAP carried the 40 pack; right now the only place I know of that carries it is That Fish Place, so I've always ordered it from them.)
Since I started using the Flourish nutrients (I've always used the tabs), the majority of my algae problems have gone away--what I have is acceptable (except, of course, the BBA and CB). BTW, my plants include: Cryptocoryne wendtii "Red", "one" hornwort (which I have to harvest regularly), 3 Amazon swords of an unknown species (there were actually 3 in the pack I bought them in, and it only said "Amazon Sword"), some water sprite (which I also have to prune regularly), some water wisteria (which the angels love), and 2 Anubias coffeefolia. I had an A. barteri "broad leaf" that grew so big I finally had to get rid of it, because any of it that grew out of the water turned brown and shriveled up--its leaves grew huge too, even though they were small when I bought it. I really hated to get rid of it, and would have grown it "outside" if I'd had any idea how to. The aquarium lid kept me from letting it grow up out of the tank, too.
Because of the CB and the aeromonas(?) should I still get the UV sterilzer first (as soon as I can afford it) or the LEDs? I am working on switching out the gravel right now, although even that will take some time (especially if I have to order it online--shipping costs as well as price: Seachem's gravel calculator said I will need 5 bags of the Onyx Sand, plus however many LBs of #3 or #5 gravel I need).
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Jun 17, 2014 8:46:15 GMT -5
Because of the CB and the aeromonas(?) should I still get the UV sterilzer first (as soon as I can afford it) or the LEDs? I am working on switching out the gravel right now, although even that will take some time (especially if I have to order it online--shipping costs as well as price: Seachem's gravel calculator said I will need 5 bags of the Onyx Sand, plus however many LBs of #3 or #5 gravel I need). I guess I would say the UV first, but I keep going back and forth with the lighting. Having the proper color spectrum will help. The T-2 lighting that Carl mentioned was a good option. You do need something in the 6400k to 10,000k range. It sounds like both are needed though.
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Post by Carl on Jun 17, 2014 10:03:49 GMT -5
I would go with the UV Sterilizer first. Consider the less expensive TMC AquaBar as a more affordable option to the GroBeam LED Product Resources: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/LEDOther.htmlWhile I really like SeaChem as a company, this is where I part ways. As I note in my planted article, only the amount of planted substrates that are needed to cover roots are need, then add #3 and/or #5 gravel. Not only will this save you a lot of money that can be used for more important equipment, but I have found this to work as well or better (less substrate compaction and thus less hydrogen sulfide production, and lower incidence of Aeromonas) Here is a quote from the Planted Aquarium Care article (Substrate Section) "One disagreement I have with the manufacturers of these products is in the amount needed. I have found that just enough of the Flourite, Onyx, etc. to cover the area of plants roots ONLY, then use #3 and/or #5 gravel/pebbles in all other areas. What I have found is this keeps bacteria often found in substrate such as Aeromonas and Pseuodomonas from coming in contact with fish as easily, especially bottom dwellers. I have also found this lowers Hydro Sulfide Production. Another simple reason for this method is cost savings; why spend extra money on copious amounts of Flourite, EcoComplete when there is no benefit and in fact I have found better results with the before noted blend??"Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumPlants.html#substrateFurther Reference as to Hydrogen Sulfides www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2008/11/hydrogen-sulfides.htmlCarl
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Post by angelminx on Jun 17, 2014 15:22:54 GMT -5
I hate to bother you so much, Carl, but when I checked the link you gave me for the AquaBar, I looked at it and don't remember seeing it when I checked your "catalog" before, or anything about it in your lighting article (I'll have to go back and check again). If I did get these instead of the Growbeams (I was planning on getting the Growbeam 600 Duo Twin), how many would I need for a low to medium light 55 gallon tank? Also, is there somewhere where you discuss installing them (or the Growbeams)? I live in an apartment and am not allowed to hang anything from the ceiling, or off of the wall (I'm pushing it by having my surge protector/power strips mounted above my aqariums, etc.,--actually I didn't ask permission, but they haven't said anything) and my twin light strip is so cumbersome. I have it sitting on top of my glass canopy with the lights on either side of the hinge. Everytime I have to do anything (feed, take water samples, clean...) I either have to tilt it on the back section of the canopy and up against that section of the filter, or unplug it and move it off the tank completely. BTW I only have 3 outlets in my room, and they are all awkwardly placed. Actually, I have 4. I forget about it because it's behind the door, on (an approx.) 3 foot section of wall between the door and the closet.
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Post by Carl on Jun 17, 2014 18:26:27 GMT -5
We do not mention these much in the Lighting article, since they are new and because the article is still aimed at showing the best of the best in each lighting category For low to even low planted aquarium lighting, two AquaBar LEDs would work (but more would be need for high lighting) With both of these, these are easily and simply placed just on the top, as long a space is used to keep the fixture directly off the glass or acrylic top which would allow for condensation Here is an page from our website that shows many mounting options (many can work for both): www.americanaquariumproducts.com/LEDTMCMounting.htmlCarl
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Post by angelminx on Jun 19, 2014 17:53:36 GMT -5
About the cyanobacteria. Something I noticed is that it "likes" to hang out at the surface, as well as on leaves. When ever I have more than a plant or two floating on the surface (like when my hornwort "gets ahead of itself" and a lot of it is floating), the CB gathers there as a "slick" on the surface. The other day, a day or two before I noticed the CB on my plants, I saw what looked like bubbles (foam, but not quite) around the water sprite that was floating near the HOB outflow. Was this perhaps a precurser to CB, or maybe some form of CB?
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Post by Carl on Jun 19, 2014 18:27:09 GMT -5
This is a typical description of Cynaobacteria which comes in many shapes, sizes, colors and types
Carl
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Jun 21, 2014 0:38:09 GMT -5
BTW, I for got to mention that my lighting iis supplied by a double-strip strip light with an Aqua-Glo T-8 40W (18,000K--that's the only "regular" bulb the they had--I have another that I bought at the same time as a repacement) in front, and an Aqueon Floramax T-8 32W (with one more replacement) in the back "slot". They were last changed on 10/8/'13 (Aqua-Glo) and 10/19/'13 (Florama).
I'd really like to get rid of the recurring (usually 2 or 3 times per year), but don't know what to do about it, especially when I can't afford to make all the recommented changes. Any suggestions would be appreiciated. Thanks.I think you mentioned that you have 18K lighting? I missed this, it's kinda a bigger one. Is it 18K? FW tanks need some like 6500K. 18K is much bluer and meant more for saltwater. If this is true, I would go with the lights before the sterilizer, cause this would help the algae even more than the sterilizer.
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Post by angelminx on Jul 4, 2014 15:50:54 GMT -5
I don't know why the stores around here, i.e. Petsmart and Petco (as well as the mail-order/online retailers), gear their lighting towards saltwater aquariums when so many more people have freshwater tanks. Petsmart doesn't even carry saltwater fish! I am saving up for the LEDs, but in the meantime I have to go with what I have, rather than spend more money on replacement fluorescents. The basic "color-enhancing" lights are okay, if you don't need lights for plants, but they don't list Kelvin values at all. That's why I had bought the 18,000K lamps--I thought the others would be to unpredictable as to K-rating.
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Post by Carl on Jul 5, 2014 12:04:23 GMT -5
I don't know why the stores around here, i.e. Petsmart and Petco (as well as the mail-order/online retailers), gear their lighting towards saltwater aquariums when so many more people have freshwater tanks. Petsmart doesn't even carry saltwater fish! I am saving up for the LEDs, but in the meantime I have to go with what I have, rather than spend more money on replacement fluorescents. The basic "color-enhancing" lights are okay, if you don't need lights for plants, but they don't list Kelvin values at all. That's why I had bought the 18,000K lamps--I thought the others would be to unpredictable as to K-rating. Sadly most lights for both freshwater and saltwater are sold and even recommended in many forums based on what is appealing, not what is best for what is being kept in their aquarium. Most people like a more blue light with more green as this is pleasing to humans These places are simply stocking what sells, not what is best. This is why we we often struggle in selling lighting and even get attacked in other forums when we preach facts that contradict others perception of what is best (despite the fact even the most remedial science backs us up) Carl
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Jul 5, 2014 13:08:19 GMT -5
I don't know why the stores around here, i.e. Petsmart and Petco (as well as the mail-order/online retailers), gear their lighting towards saltwater aquariums when so many more people have freshwater tanks. Petsmart doesn't even carry saltwater fish! I am saving up for the LEDs, but in the meantime I have to go with what I have, rather than spend more money on replacement fluorescents. The basic "color-enhancing" lights are okay, if you don't need lights for plants, but they don't list Kelvin values at all. That's why I had bought the 18,000K lamps--I thought the others would be to unpredictable as to K-rating. Another option is to get some cheap 6500K CFL bulbs until you can get a long-term solution. Having the correct kelvin of lighting will help algae, plant growth, nitrogen cycle, fish health...Just thinking
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Post by angelminx on Jul 5, 2014 15:36:24 GMT -5
I was just looking at the packaging for my Aqua-Glo. The Hagens are the only brand that I've found that even give info on Lumens and Lux. They have a K-rating chart on the back of the packaging for their different bulbs, and it states that their plant bulb (Flora-Glo) is only 2800K; the Life-Glo, which I couldn't find anywhere, is 6700K.
When you mention the 6500K CFLs, where would I find them, and are they like "regular" bulbs that screw in, or can they be used in the strip light setup that I already have?
Thanks
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Jul 7, 2014 0:02:28 GMT -5
I was just looking at the packaging for my Aqua-Glo. The Hagens are the only brand that I've found that even give info on Lumens and Lux. They have a K-rating chart on the back of the packaging for their different bulbs, and it states that their plant bulb (Flora-Glo) is only 2800K; the Life-Glo, which I couldn't find anywhere, is 6700K. When you mention the 6500K CFLs, where would I find them, and are they like "regular" bulbs that screw in, or can they be used in the strip light setup that I already have? Thanks 2800K is way to warm (yellow). The life Glo is much better but doesn't help you can't find it. The CFL bulbs are something Carl has. There are like a standard screw kind. It would be a good temporary fix or long-term, but they do need to be replaced at least once a year. Better like 6-8 months. www.americanaquariumproducts.com/PowerCompact.html
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Post by parker002 on Jul 7, 2014 11:06:43 GMT -5
When I was using T8 CFLs, my preference was for Zoo Med. They actually list the spectral analysis on the packaging...
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Post by angelminx on Jul 7, 2014 13:36:47 GMT -5
Thanks, guys, I'll check them out!
BTW, can the T8 CFLs by Zoo Med be used in a standard T8 fluorescent fixture? If not, I'll have to find a way to temporarily mount the CFLs thatscrew in.
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