Post by goldenpuon on Dec 26, 2011 1:21:56 GMT -5
Hi everyone.
The last few days (it has been going on longer probably), I have noticed that my goldfish are acting strange in terms of putting their dorsel fins down and seeming less lively (excluding feeding time). Alden is doing the worst with this (most likely) because of a disease/problem it has. (It has had nodules on its tail for 3 years off and on that disappear and reappear that Carl claims may be (quote) "either a relatively benign (but stubborn) infection of Saprolegnia or Ichthyophonus..."
I also see that the nodules on Alden are spreading to other fish now instead of staying under control (the fact that this didn't spread much or progress is why I haven't been more aggressively treating Alden for the white nodules) . Aztec, a VERY long finned goldfish I have had 6 years now, has the same type of white nodules Alden has on its tail now. Aztec only had this very mildly a few months prior but now it is very obvious it has what Alden does.
However, fish that don't have the tail nodules seem to be stressing out more than usual as well such as Kona and Nemo with putting their dorsel fins down more than they should. Furthermore, Hansel's eye (the one that is darkened within the fish's eye lense for unknown reasons) is slightly worse though its other eye is still intact. (I have had Hansel about 5 years and it has a darkening of one of its eyes inside its lens appeared about 3 months ago and has not really changed much since). However, it worriess me that it has worsened now at a time when the fish are acting stressed.
Lastly, the area around one of Aztec's gills (the same very long finned fish I mentioned earlier above) keeps on turning a bright red on and off and now appears a dull red as if healing. The fish's other gill is fine and the breathing is normal.
To the point, most of these problems (the white/pink nodules on the tail of Alden spreading, Hansel's eye worsening, and Aztec getting the odd gill issue) all happened mostly (but not totally) within the past month.
I can not seem to find what is wrong with the fish specificily that is causing this or any stresser is present.
TANK READINGS "BEFORE" WATER CHANGE I DID TODAY (Prior to this, the water had not been changed for 3 weeks):
Ammonia: not tested
PH: 7.6
KH: 150
GH: 250
Nitrite: 0 as far as I remember
Nitrate: (I lost track of time after dipping in the test strip for this, but it was between 10 and 30)
SUMMARY OF FISH AND UNUSUAL SIGNS THEY ARE SHOWING:
Fish:
Aztec: nodules on tail fin, odd reddening around one gill but not the other, showing signs of stress/[putting dorsel fin down
Puon: none other than typical genetic bloating issues that are currently under control and completely unrelated to this, is not acting unusual in any way
Kona: dorsel fins down more than usual, no other signs
Nemo: dorsel fin down more than usual, on brief inspection, fins look clear even though the fins are long
Hansel: affected eye worsening, dorsel fin down "slightly" more than usual but hard to tell
Salyme: dorsel fin down more than usual, small red/unraised dot on tail that is likely just discoloration
Wickren: dorsel fin down slightly more than usual
Alden: fish appeared fairly stressed, dorsel fin all the way down at times, a bit lethargic, white nodules on tail look pretty bad
TANK INFO:
40 gallons, 8 goldfish from 2 1/2 to 6 inches INCLUDING fin length (minus fins the fish are not as long), HOB AquaClear made for 60 gallon tanks, Hydro Sponge 3 and large bubble wand, no gravel, fake plants, filter cleaned monthly, tank cleaned and siphoned out every 2 weeks.
HERE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED OUT OF THE ORDINARY THAT MAY HAVE TRIGGERED/CONTRIBUTED TO THIS:
1. Old hydro sponge #1 replaced with hydro sponge #3. I used a chunk of the old sponge from the hydro sponge 1 to help season the hydro sponge 3 by placing it tightly up against the new sponge for 2 weeks before removiing it for good.
2. Moved goldfish (Foneme) out of the 40 gallon and put in Puon in its place
3. Due to finals, did not change out any water or clean the tank for three weeks instead of the usual two
4. added bubble wand that may have led to overaeration of the tank (fish seem to be getting bubbles on their bodies from the wand that go away but keep collecting on them like the water is super oxygen saturated)
5. Added a large unmedicated wondershell in conjunction with SeaChem Marine Buffer that caused the PH, GH, and KH to go unusually high. (I estimate the PH went to 8.0 and the GH went over 350 at some pint)
6. Nitrate appears unusually low for tank not having been cleaned in 3 weeks (tank may be cycling?)
POSSIBLE REASONS FOR FISH ACTING SICK I CAN THINK OF:
1. Possible cycling due to change in filter media
2. stress from rise in PH, GH, KH
3. overaeration (The bubble wand REALLY aerates the tank and the fish have been swimming through the bubbles from the bubble wand every several minutes every day)
4. Addition of new fish Puon
5. From the tank not being cleaned on time (pretty unlikely since these guys typically get svery good care and the tank wasn't all that dirty still IMO)
6. Mild case of ich (a guess)
FIN TRIMMING:
One of the problems my fish are having is with the white and pink nodules/tail sores of their caudrel fins right now. The nodules only seem to affect fish that have very long fins and mainly on the bottom lobe of the fin. Many of my goldfish have very long fins- 1 has fins the length of its body and a few others have fins the length of about 3/4 of their bodies. These fish like Alden and Aztec seem prone to the white nodules due to the fins sometimes resting on the bottom of the tank . This ailment causes the fish stress/discomfort. I have heard of people trimming betta's fins when they have fin rot or to allow the fish to get around more easily. For my goldfish, it would be to get rid of and reduce the chance of them getting nodules on their tails
I have many questions regarding this before I got ahead with it in an effort to help the fish. (My apologies, this is very long)
1. Is cutting off a large portion of fishes' tail fins safe for the fish (say half of the tail length on very long tailed fish)?
2. Will trimming off a pretty large part of the fishes' tail fin cause the fish a lot of stress/bleeding? How much?
3. What should I use to trim the fins?
4. Are the chances of secondary infections high if a large portion of the fin is removed (ex. fungus or cottony growths attacking fins after cut)?
5. How much of the fin can safely be cut off at once?
6. After the fins are trimmed, is it advisable/safe to use Postassium Permanagate on the fins to help get rid ot the white nodules and prevent secondary infections?
7. Is this a high stress thing to do to a goldfish if done quickly and properly?
8. Is there any follow-up I will need to do after this to care for the fish's fins after they are cut besides keeping an eye on the fish and their tail fins?
Last, based on the info I gave, what does it seem might be causing the fish to act unusual with fin clamping and being less active, and what should I do about it?
Thanks in advance and my apologies for this insanely long message. Help/input is greatly appreciated. This is really worrying me since I have no ide what it is and appears to be getting worse by the day. For now, I have darkened the tank partially.
Renee
The last few days (it has been going on longer probably), I have noticed that my goldfish are acting strange in terms of putting their dorsel fins down and seeming less lively (excluding feeding time). Alden is doing the worst with this (most likely) because of a disease/problem it has. (It has had nodules on its tail for 3 years off and on that disappear and reappear that Carl claims may be (quote) "either a relatively benign (but stubborn) infection of Saprolegnia or Ichthyophonus..."
I also see that the nodules on Alden are spreading to other fish now instead of staying under control (the fact that this didn't spread much or progress is why I haven't been more aggressively treating Alden for the white nodules) . Aztec, a VERY long finned goldfish I have had 6 years now, has the same type of white nodules Alden has on its tail now. Aztec only had this very mildly a few months prior but now it is very obvious it has what Alden does.
However, fish that don't have the tail nodules seem to be stressing out more than usual as well such as Kona and Nemo with putting their dorsel fins down more than they should. Furthermore, Hansel's eye (the one that is darkened within the fish's eye lense for unknown reasons) is slightly worse though its other eye is still intact. (I have had Hansel about 5 years and it has a darkening of one of its eyes inside its lens appeared about 3 months ago and has not really changed much since). However, it worriess me that it has worsened now at a time when the fish are acting stressed.
Lastly, the area around one of Aztec's gills (the same very long finned fish I mentioned earlier above) keeps on turning a bright red on and off and now appears a dull red as if healing. The fish's other gill is fine and the breathing is normal.
To the point, most of these problems (the white/pink nodules on the tail of Alden spreading, Hansel's eye worsening, and Aztec getting the odd gill issue) all happened mostly (but not totally) within the past month.
I can not seem to find what is wrong with the fish specificily that is causing this or any stresser is present.
TANK READINGS "BEFORE" WATER CHANGE I DID TODAY (Prior to this, the water had not been changed for 3 weeks):
Ammonia: not tested
PH: 7.6
KH: 150
GH: 250
Nitrite: 0 as far as I remember
Nitrate: (I lost track of time after dipping in the test strip for this, but it was between 10 and 30)
SUMMARY OF FISH AND UNUSUAL SIGNS THEY ARE SHOWING:
Fish:
Aztec: nodules on tail fin, odd reddening around one gill but not the other, showing signs of stress/[putting dorsel fin down
Puon: none other than typical genetic bloating issues that are currently under control and completely unrelated to this, is not acting unusual in any way
Kona: dorsel fins down more than usual, no other signs
Nemo: dorsel fin down more than usual, on brief inspection, fins look clear even though the fins are long
Hansel: affected eye worsening, dorsel fin down "slightly" more than usual but hard to tell
Salyme: dorsel fin down more than usual, small red/unraised dot on tail that is likely just discoloration
Wickren: dorsel fin down slightly more than usual
Alden: fish appeared fairly stressed, dorsel fin all the way down at times, a bit lethargic, white nodules on tail look pretty bad
TANK INFO:
40 gallons, 8 goldfish from 2 1/2 to 6 inches INCLUDING fin length (minus fins the fish are not as long), HOB AquaClear made for 60 gallon tanks, Hydro Sponge 3 and large bubble wand, no gravel, fake plants, filter cleaned monthly, tank cleaned and siphoned out every 2 weeks.
HERE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED OUT OF THE ORDINARY THAT MAY HAVE TRIGGERED/CONTRIBUTED TO THIS:
1. Old hydro sponge #1 replaced with hydro sponge #3. I used a chunk of the old sponge from the hydro sponge 1 to help season the hydro sponge 3 by placing it tightly up against the new sponge for 2 weeks before removiing it for good.
2. Moved goldfish (Foneme) out of the 40 gallon and put in Puon in its place
3. Due to finals, did not change out any water or clean the tank for three weeks instead of the usual two
4. added bubble wand that may have led to overaeration of the tank (fish seem to be getting bubbles on their bodies from the wand that go away but keep collecting on them like the water is super oxygen saturated)
5. Added a large unmedicated wondershell in conjunction with SeaChem Marine Buffer that caused the PH, GH, and KH to go unusually high. (I estimate the PH went to 8.0 and the GH went over 350 at some pint)
6. Nitrate appears unusually low for tank not having been cleaned in 3 weeks (tank may be cycling?)
POSSIBLE REASONS FOR FISH ACTING SICK I CAN THINK OF:
1. Possible cycling due to change in filter media
2. stress from rise in PH, GH, KH
3. overaeration (The bubble wand REALLY aerates the tank and the fish have been swimming through the bubbles from the bubble wand every several minutes every day)
4. Addition of new fish Puon
5. From the tank not being cleaned on time (pretty unlikely since these guys typically get svery good care and the tank wasn't all that dirty still IMO)
6. Mild case of ich (a guess)
FIN TRIMMING:
One of the problems my fish are having is with the white and pink nodules/tail sores of their caudrel fins right now. The nodules only seem to affect fish that have very long fins and mainly on the bottom lobe of the fin. Many of my goldfish have very long fins- 1 has fins the length of its body and a few others have fins the length of about 3/4 of their bodies. These fish like Alden and Aztec seem prone to the white nodules due to the fins sometimes resting on the bottom of the tank . This ailment causes the fish stress/discomfort. I have heard of people trimming betta's fins when they have fin rot or to allow the fish to get around more easily. For my goldfish, it would be to get rid of and reduce the chance of them getting nodules on their tails
I have many questions regarding this before I got ahead with it in an effort to help the fish. (My apologies, this is very long)
1. Is cutting off a large portion of fishes' tail fins safe for the fish (say half of the tail length on very long tailed fish)?
2. Will trimming off a pretty large part of the fishes' tail fin cause the fish a lot of stress/bleeding? How much?
3. What should I use to trim the fins?
4. Are the chances of secondary infections high if a large portion of the fin is removed (ex. fungus or cottony growths attacking fins after cut)?
5. How much of the fin can safely be cut off at once?
6. After the fins are trimmed, is it advisable/safe to use Postassium Permanagate on the fins to help get rid ot the white nodules and prevent secondary infections?
7. Is this a high stress thing to do to a goldfish if done quickly and properly?
8. Is there any follow-up I will need to do after this to care for the fish's fins after they are cut besides keeping an eye on the fish and their tail fins?
Last, based on the info I gave, what does it seem might be causing the fish to act unusual with fin clamping and being less active, and what should I do about it?
Thanks in advance and my apologies for this insanely long message. Help/input is greatly appreciated. This is really worrying me since I have no ide what it is and appears to be getting worse by the day. For now, I have darkened the tank partially.
Renee