Post by goldenpuon on Sept 1, 2008 19:16:16 GMT -5
I also reposted this from EA. I think I am doen reposting for now. XD
From: goldenpuon (Original Message) Sent: 8/30/2008 9:53 PM
I got an email from Suzie and she said one of her bettas had full fins at 3 months old and a betta's fins should be done growing no later than 7 months. My best male, Critique is still growing his out a little more at 10 months, so there is definitely a problem. Even if I were just casually breeding once or twice, there needs to be some major improvement in my raising of fry. I did some research on the internet and I started a infosia (can't spell it right) culture though as I read, I may not have success my first time. I do not really need one yet because I do not have any very young fry but it's good to practice. I started a brine shrimp culture as well. I'm hoping to feed them to my 2 young bettas that aren't growing at a fast enough rate to give them a boost.
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Recommend Message 2 of 8 in Discussion
From: carl_rs Sent: 8/30/2008 10:46 PM
I might suggest Microworms, Vinegar Eels, Walter Worms, etc.
I know Suzie Q raises these and may have them for sale as well (or at least starter cultures). I also suggest feeding these cultures something like Spirulina 20 for imrpoved results.
Infusoria are smaller yet then the above mentioned fry food sources and are often a source of food for them, so these may be a bit small. That said infusoria is a catch all term for many minute cratures, but generally these are single cell protozoa, cilliates, etc. which makes them too small even for many fry.
See my article on fish nutrition (which includes a link to Suzie Q):
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html
I might also suggest Suzie Qs method of water changes as well, but again she can direct you for this. M reason fro bringing this up is that water quality can play a major role in fish growth.
Carl
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Recommend Delete Message 3 of 8 in Discussion
From: goldenpuon Sent: 8/31/2008 2:44 PM
I am doing 95% water changes for my youngest betta fry every day (I say 95% because I capture it in some of its old water and then add the fish with some of its old water to the new water. That's because the betta is too small to net) The fish is 6 weeks old and under an inch! I think its ostly because of the foods I feed him/her. I have a bunch of baby brine shrimp swimming around but they are still to small to feed the betta. (they just hatched yesterday) but I will be trying to feed some of them to my young betta oncethe brine shrimp get a little bigger.
Betta fry are super small so influsoria may be good but not for long. I read up and they suggested feeding it to them when the fry are really tiny, under a week. I will only be feeding infusoria to my betta fry, not my guppy fry. My guppies are born way too big to eat influsoria but the betta fry aren't.
Thanks by the way.
Renee
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 4 of 8 in Discussion
From: goldenpuon Sent: 8/31/2008 9:32 PM
I fed some brine shrimp to my 5 week old fry today. She/he loved it! It was stalking the BBS. It was so cute minus the BBS losing their lives.
I have 2 cultures going. I have aeration in both of them and each culture holds a quart of water. There is also salt I added yesterday and brewers yeast that I will be feeding to them once a week. I want to get them into a 1 gallon because I want obe as humane as possible. But I was wondering, is it possible to breed Brine Shrimp in the same tanks as the fish that eat them? I'm not sure if fish can stand the most minute amount of yeast or not. But I certainly have salt (especially with the guppies) in all my tanks at all times. A lot of my tanks also have heaters set to 80 F or so which I hear brine shrimp like. Then again, I wouldn't want brine shrimp getting sucked into my filters and clogging them or dying and producing a huge bioload. I was thinking of just having a very small amount of brine shrimp in each tank and the fish would eat the rest. Of course, I would have to be careful.
I'm not sure if this is a crazy idea or not. I've never heard of it being done before. The reason I even though of it is how sad I feel when I think about the fact that I'm raising brine shrimp just to be eaten. If they were in a fish tank, they would probably have a chance to live longer, at least until the fish eat them. I feel it may be humaner than having thousands grow in a gallon container in super crowded conditions. I know very well that raising brine shrimp is part of keeping fish, especially an essential part of raising fry. I just want my animals to be as happy and healthy as possible before they're eaten.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 5 of 8 in Discussion
From: goldenpuon Sent: 9/1/2008 9:30 AM
Here's the message that Lori ent me and Murdock forwarded to me and my respsone. Just so you are up on it.
I have been trying to post on Renee's questions but I can't. I did not want to bother Carl with this...can you post it for me?
Renee:
You should NOT try to raise BBS with the Betta. BBS need brackish to SW to live and hatch. Raising and breeding BBS is not easy. The BBS need to be fed within 3 days of hatching or they are just fillers. The yolk the bbs are feeding off of is what the betta fry need.
From 3days to about 1 weeks they need to eat VE
Week 2 thru week 4 BBS (Micro worms or Walter worms are for back up)..could go longer I just get tired of hatching...lol
Week 3 thru 5 Grindals fed with the food Carl suggested...harvested right after feeding so they are gut loaded
Week 4-week 6 can be crushed betta food (Atison's or Golden Pearls are the best...GP can be gotten very small to very large)
Week 6-adulthood...betta food.
If this does not make sense...email me...
I don't feed ANY freeze dried foods!
Lori
Thank you Lori and John. I will not do that then. It was just a crazy idea. I'll have to buy some more cultures. I'll do that soon. I only have 2 bettas under 10 months right now but before I raise any more fry I'll have to get the necessary cultures. I want the fish I raise (and the anaimls from the cultures I raise) to be healthy and happy. Thanks agin both of you!
Renee
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 6 of 8 in Discussion
From: goldenpuon Sent: 9/1/2008 9:37 AM
There's an update on how the BBS are doing.
They are 2 days old now and growing like wildfire. Thye appear to be a dozen times bigger than when they hatched as specks. I can see their feet pumping as they swim through the water. I fed them brewers yeast when I first hatched them. There appear to be thousands of them in there, I will need to get them in a gallon container soon because I have raised brine shrimp as pets before and they got to 1/3 or more an inch long when they were 3 weeks old.
I'm going to research VE and grindal worms right now.
Sorry if I sound over excited about the BBS, I've just never raised this many before and had them grow so quickly (unless I forgot from when i had them a few years ago).
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 7 of 8 in Discussion
From: goldenpuon Sent: 9/1/2008 9:54 AM
I just took a brief look at how to raise VE and grindle worms. I have a few questions. Lori, on your site, it said that grindal worms needed coconut fiber. My mom commonly eats coconuts. Would the coconut fiber straight from the cocounut she eats work once the coconut juice is drained? Also, how will I obtain coconut fiber when coconuts are out of season or we do no have any in the house?
Also, for VE, I have vinegar but I think it may be expired. Would it still work? And I read that you should use apple cidar or a piece of apple mixed in for the VE. How much would I add of that?
Suzie, I am planning on buying cultures very soon from your shop. I was surprised at how low your prices are. However, I'll need to get the timing right for buying it for when I have a spawn.
Thank you very much everyone for your help.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 8 of 8 in Discussion
From: goldenpuon Sent: 9/1/2008 4:04 PM
Here's Lori's response to the above since she couldn't get it posted. She had to send it to me by email. My reply is also included. I am posting this so even if no one here needs help breeding bettas or raising cultures now, they can still learn about it.
Thank you so much Lori. I will post your response on EA so everyone can see it and possibly learn from it.
On to the questions. You said you used coconut fiber but I don't see any for sale on your page. Where would I get the right kind? Also, how much would a small culture of grindle worms and small vinegar eel culture cost including shipping? (you said you raised the price of shipping).
Also, I looked up VE and I read that they should be raised in a jar with 1 part vinegar to 1 part water with some apple. I have vinegar but I think it is expired. Will that still work?
Last, I know you can get mites in a grindle worm culture. If that were to happen by accident, could the mites harm the fish that eat the grindle worms or infect humans?
By the way, my BBS are doing excellent. They love their aerator. I wonder how they're hard to keep. I had brine shrimp in kindergarten as a class pet and when I was 11. I remember the bigger ones dying after several weeks and then they just sat decaying there. That was gross plus I was told never to change water, just add water from evaporation. They also had babies I think.
Thank again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:58:17 -0700
From: lorisgreen@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: Show Betta Material?
To: reneewise@hotmail.com
<STYLE> .ExternalClass DIV {;} </STYLE>
I will have to answer your questions here...I am now having a hard time even viewing EA...have to refresh between each page...eeeerrrrrgggg!!!
Ok....MW and WW cultures are grown in plain oatmeal. Only oatmeal and water...and yeast. You will need to start cultures 2 weeks before you need them, then start a new one a week after the first...a week after the 2nd is started...start a 3rd and dump the first.
Grindals: I have PLENTY of coconut fiber (it is not the string fiber...I had that and hated it). I have ground fiber(?). The stuff that I use..and like better..is like a soil. You can also use potting soil...without ferts for plants. I am not sure where to get that though.
As far as the pricing...I AM going to have to raise it. I shipped some VE and it cost me $5.45 just to ship. I will have to charge extra for shipping. I will also have to include a box fee or I can use the $9 flat rate boxes that I already have. I reused the last small box I had. I will break it down as soon as I know how much the boxes are going to cost me. You will mostly have to pay for the shipping supplies (box and shipping)...I will only add an extra $2 for the cutlures you order (my time). I have plenty of extra medium for the grindals...for $1 more...I can send you a good culture instead of just a starter. The grindals will be $7 instead of the $6. If you are getting all the live foods I have, it will be much cheaper to do the flat rate. I will do what I can to keep this as cheap as possible for you.
I hope I have not over whelmed you with all of this.
Let me know.
Lori
From: goldenpuon (Original Message) Sent: 8/30/2008 9:53 PM
I got an email from Suzie and she said one of her bettas had full fins at 3 months old and a betta's fins should be done growing no later than 7 months. My best male, Critique is still growing his out a little more at 10 months, so there is definitely a problem. Even if I were just casually breeding once or twice, there needs to be some major improvement in my raising of fry. I did some research on the internet and I started a infosia (can't spell it right) culture though as I read, I may not have success my first time. I do not really need one yet because I do not have any very young fry but it's good to practice. I started a brine shrimp culture as well. I'm hoping to feed them to my 2 young bettas that aren't growing at a fast enough rate to give them a boost.
First Previous 2-8 of 8 Next Last
Reply
Recommend Message 2 of 8 in Discussion
From: carl_rs Sent: 8/30/2008 10:46 PM
I might suggest Microworms, Vinegar Eels, Walter Worms, etc.
I know Suzie Q raises these and may have them for sale as well (or at least starter cultures). I also suggest feeding these cultures something like Spirulina 20 for imrpoved results.
Infusoria are smaller yet then the above mentioned fry food sources and are often a source of food for them, so these may be a bit small. That said infusoria is a catch all term for many minute cratures, but generally these are single cell protozoa, cilliates, etc. which makes them too small even for many fry.
See my article on fish nutrition (which includes a link to Suzie Q):
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html
I might also suggest Suzie Qs method of water changes as well, but again she can direct you for this. M reason fro bringing this up is that water quality can play a major role in fish growth.
Carl
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 3 of 8 in Discussion
From: goldenpuon Sent: 8/31/2008 2:44 PM
I am doing 95% water changes for my youngest betta fry every day (I say 95% because I capture it in some of its old water and then add the fish with some of its old water to the new water. That's because the betta is too small to net) The fish is 6 weeks old and under an inch! I think its ostly because of the foods I feed him/her. I have a bunch of baby brine shrimp swimming around but they are still to small to feed the betta. (they just hatched yesterday) but I will be trying to feed some of them to my young betta oncethe brine shrimp get a little bigger.
Betta fry are super small so influsoria may be good but not for long. I read up and they suggested feeding it to them when the fry are really tiny, under a week. I will only be feeding infusoria to my betta fry, not my guppy fry. My guppies are born way too big to eat influsoria but the betta fry aren't.
Thanks by the way.
Renee
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 4 of 8 in Discussion
From: goldenpuon Sent: 8/31/2008 9:32 PM
I fed some brine shrimp to my 5 week old fry today. She/he loved it! It was stalking the BBS. It was so cute minus the BBS losing their lives.
I have 2 cultures going. I have aeration in both of them and each culture holds a quart of water. There is also salt I added yesterday and brewers yeast that I will be feeding to them once a week. I want to get them into a 1 gallon because I want obe as humane as possible. But I was wondering, is it possible to breed Brine Shrimp in the same tanks as the fish that eat them? I'm not sure if fish can stand the most minute amount of yeast or not. But I certainly have salt (especially with the guppies) in all my tanks at all times. A lot of my tanks also have heaters set to 80 F or so which I hear brine shrimp like. Then again, I wouldn't want brine shrimp getting sucked into my filters and clogging them or dying and producing a huge bioload. I was thinking of just having a very small amount of brine shrimp in each tank and the fish would eat the rest. Of course, I would have to be careful.
I'm not sure if this is a crazy idea or not. I've never heard of it being done before. The reason I even though of it is how sad I feel when I think about the fact that I'm raising brine shrimp just to be eaten. If they were in a fish tank, they would probably have a chance to live longer, at least until the fish eat them. I feel it may be humaner than having thousands grow in a gallon container in super crowded conditions. I know very well that raising brine shrimp is part of keeping fish, especially an essential part of raising fry. I just want my animals to be as happy and healthy as possible before they're eaten.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 5 of 8 in Discussion
From: goldenpuon Sent: 9/1/2008 9:30 AM
Here's the message that Lori ent me and Murdock forwarded to me and my respsone. Just so you are up on it.
I have been trying to post on Renee's questions but I can't. I did not want to bother Carl with this...can you post it for me?
Renee:
You should NOT try to raise BBS with the Betta. BBS need brackish to SW to live and hatch. Raising and breeding BBS is not easy. The BBS need to be fed within 3 days of hatching or they are just fillers. The yolk the bbs are feeding off of is what the betta fry need.
From 3days to about 1 weeks they need to eat VE
Week 2 thru week 4 BBS (Micro worms or Walter worms are for back up)..could go longer I just get tired of hatching...lol
Week 3 thru 5 Grindals fed with the food Carl suggested...harvested right after feeding so they are gut loaded
Week 4-week 6 can be crushed betta food (Atison's or Golden Pearls are the best...GP can be gotten very small to very large)
Week 6-adulthood...betta food.
If this does not make sense...email me...
I don't feed ANY freeze dried foods!
Lori
Thank you Lori and John. I will not do that then. It was just a crazy idea. I'll have to buy some more cultures. I'll do that soon. I only have 2 bettas under 10 months right now but before I raise any more fry I'll have to get the necessary cultures. I want the fish I raise (and the anaimls from the cultures I raise) to be healthy and happy. Thanks agin both of you!
Renee
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 6 of 8 in Discussion
From: goldenpuon Sent: 9/1/2008 9:37 AM
There's an update on how the BBS are doing.
They are 2 days old now and growing like wildfire. Thye appear to be a dozen times bigger than when they hatched as specks. I can see their feet pumping as they swim through the water. I fed them brewers yeast when I first hatched them. There appear to be thousands of them in there, I will need to get them in a gallon container soon because I have raised brine shrimp as pets before and they got to 1/3 or more an inch long when they were 3 weeks old.
I'm going to research VE and grindal worms right now.
Sorry if I sound over excited about the BBS, I've just never raised this many before and had them grow so quickly (unless I forgot from when i had them a few years ago).
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 7 of 8 in Discussion
From: goldenpuon Sent: 9/1/2008 9:54 AM
I just took a brief look at how to raise VE and grindle worms. I have a few questions. Lori, on your site, it said that grindal worms needed coconut fiber. My mom commonly eats coconuts. Would the coconut fiber straight from the cocounut she eats work once the coconut juice is drained? Also, how will I obtain coconut fiber when coconuts are out of season or we do no have any in the house?
Also, for VE, I have vinegar but I think it may be expired. Would it still work? And I read that you should use apple cidar or a piece of apple mixed in for the VE. How much would I add of that?
Suzie, I am planning on buying cultures very soon from your shop. I was surprised at how low your prices are. However, I'll need to get the timing right for buying it for when I have a spawn.
Thank you very much everyone for your help.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 8 of 8 in Discussion
From: goldenpuon Sent: 9/1/2008 4:04 PM
Here's Lori's response to the above since she couldn't get it posted. She had to send it to me by email. My reply is also included. I am posting this so even if no one here needs help breeding bettas or raising cultures now, they can still learn about it.
Thank you so much Lori. I will post your response on EA so everyone can see it and possibly learn from it.
On to the questions. You said you used coconut fiber but I don't see any for sale on your page. Where would I get the right kind? Also, how much would a small culture of grindle worms and small vinegar eel culture cost including shipping? (you said you raised the price of shipping).
Also, I looked up VE and I read that they should be raised in a jar with 1 part vinegar to 1 part water with some apple. I have vinegar but I think it is expired. Will that still work?
Last, I know you can get mites in a grindle worm culture. If that were to happen by accident, could the mites harm the fish that eat the grindle worms or infect humans?
By the way, my BBS are doing excellent. They love their aerator. I wonder how they're hard to keep. I had brine shrimp in kindergarten as a class pet and when I was 11. I remember the bigger ones dying after several weeks and then they just sat decaying there. That was gross plus I was told never to change water, just add water from evaporation. They also had babies I think.
Thank again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:58:17 -0700
From: lorisgreen@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: Show Betta Material?
To: reneewise@hotmail.com
<STYLE> .ExternalClass DIV {;} </STYLE>
I will have to answer your questions here...I am now having a hard time even viewing EA...have to refresh between each page...eeeerrrrrgggg!!!
Ok....MW and WW cultures are grown in plain oatmeal. Only oatmeal and water...and yeast. You will need to start cultures 2 weeks before you need them, then start a new one a week after the first...a week after the 2nd is started...start a 3rd and dump the first.
Grindals: I have PLENTY of coconut fiber (it is not the string fiber...I had that and hated it). I have ground fiber(?). The stuff that I use..and like better..is like a soil. You can also use potting soil...without ferts for plants. I am not sure where to get that though.
As far as the pricing...I AM going to have to raise it. I shipped some VE and it cost me $5.45 just to ship. I will have to charge extra for shipping. I will also have to include a box fee or I can use the $9 flat rate boxes that I already have. I reused the last small box I had. I will break it down as soon as I know how much the boxes are going to cost me. You will mostly have to pay for the shipping supplies (box and shipping)...I will only add an extra $2 for the cutlures you order (my time). I have plenty of extra medium for the grindals...for $1 more...I can send you a good culture instead of just a starter. The grindals will be $7 instead of the $6. If you are getting all the live foods I have, it will be much cheaper to do the flat rate. I will do what I can to keep this as cheap as possible for you.
I hope I have not over whelmed you with all of this.
Let me know.
Lori
