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Post by Carl on Nov 9, 2011 11:50:43 GMT -5
I do believe at all the problem is from the Pimafix or Melafix, with the exception of low pH, GH aquariums there is not proof that either can cause sensitivity in Tetra (or even Gouramis with the correct water parameters for their use). This is still cut and pasted on the Internet, so this fear of using these relatively inert and not at all strong medications is still prevalent. See: Melafix, Pimafix DangersI feel that more than likely this problem was started from the severe abuse these fish suffered earlier from other aggressive fish as I believe you noted. Think of it this way using an analogy: "If a person is in a bad auto accident with trauma to the spine as well as soft tissue damage; often this person suffers other health maladies for life after this incident"This is not to say you should not treat later with a more potent medication regimen (as we discussed earlier), just as in the above analogy with this person should hey develop a propensity for pneumonia they should simply chalk it up to the accident and ignore it by not treating. I would change water, carbon, check water parameters and consider[/b] a stronger medication regimen. Carl |
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Post by goldenpuon on Nov 10, 2011 2:51:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the quick response and input Carl. I understand and I know that people noting that Melafix and Pimafix hurting fish is a common misconception. What I was trying to say is NOT that the Melafix/Pimafix combo was the problem or harmful to the fish. (It is very gentle and effective IMO). My train of thought (which I think now is flawed) was that this female is doing so poorly now that any kind of medication or water condition that is anything but ideal could cause her to become more stressed. However, after reading your post and thinking more about what I said in my message, I am "very" likely mistaken the increase in stress she was showing was meds or water conditions. I came up with this based on how weakened she is and am sorry for my ignorance with this. I have read your Melafix article more than once recently and know very well how gentle it is such as it curing a sick guppy I once had and causing no harm what so ever to the many bettas I have kept and used it with (which is a compliant I have read about that seems arbitary in my experience.) I agree that this is the case. This definitely makes the most sense (much more so than my idea). As well, the two females who are doing better/are not sick (other than fin damage) were not chased or chased as much as this fish so this is definitely by far most likely what is the cause. For an update, I put the carbon into the filter in the middle of the night last night (I am a night owl  ) and changed 25% of the water at 11am in the morning. I will get the water parameters later today (it is the middle of the night now). I suspect the water parameters are most likely very good.
Though my instincts tell me not to treat more or with a more potent medication, I am open to trying to treat despite my this. But before I treat, what kind of disease do you think this is and what would be effective for it? It appears to be partially internal around the fish's spine and am unsure which medications would be effective here (if at all) for blackening of the spinal area. This fish's ailment does not seem to match any disease I know of. When I first looked into this, I tried researching lateral line erosion and some other diseases as well as skimming a few of your articles. Unfortunately, I found no "definite" answer to what disease she might have.  I think this might be injury or stress induced (though she has never had any spinal injury I know of.) I wish I had gotten to this sooner and prevented the stress that contributed to this. Also, sorry if this message I came off unusually blunt or unclear in any way. I spent 10 hours at college today with little to no breaks and didn't rest afterward so I'm not thinking as sharply as I could be. :/ Renee |
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Post by parker002 on Nov 10, 2011 8:45:25 GMT -5
I'd go ahead and follow Carl's original recommendation of using Kanaplex + Furan 2. The symptoms are difficult but seem to fit Columnaris the best...
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Post by goldenpuon on Nov 10, 2011 15:55:49 GMT -5
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Post by Carl on Nov 10, 2011 16:33:12 GMT -5
The first and third pictures are pigment from what I can see (especially the platy) As for the Silver Dollar, this is a parasite (not very common in FW) and is best treated with a combination of ParaGuard and Nitrofurazone (Furan 2)This still does not appear to be the problem with your fish, but this would be an effective treatment either way for many bacterium. BTW, your water parameters are fine.  Carl |
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Post by goldenpuon on Nov 10, 2011 20:21:14 GMT -5
I have decided to treat with a Paraguard and Furan 2 combo. Even if this is not black spot as I think it could be, this is effective for a number of diseases.
I knew these would be fine before I tested (unless the tetras suddenly started making the amount of waste as a huge fish lol), but posted tested and posted them nonetheless as per your suggestion and for inforamtiion for people helping with the fish.
Renee
P.S.: I'll keep you posted. I'm starting treatment tomorrow (Saturday).
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Post by goldenpuon on Nov 11, 2011 22:27:38 GMT -5
I put in the Furan 2 and Paraguard this evening and removed the filter carbon. So far, so good. The affected tetra is still eating which is great IMO as some of my black phantoms have been finicky when moved or sick in the past.
Renee
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Post by goldenpuon on Nov 19, 2011 1:41:05 GMT -5
I completed the treatment with the Paraguard and Furan 2, but see no improvement in the sick black phantom (thought the black spots aren't worse). I see her eating and going for food (quite weakly) and she only seems to want to swim near the surface by the filter outtake from my HOB Whisper. She is breathing heavily, is weak, and somewhat disoriented. As well, I saw one of the other 2 females chase her during feeding time.
Unfortunately, I don't think this fish has much left for her and don't have the time to maintain a separate tank (I have found that transferring black phantoms that are ill to new surrounding even with the same water does not go well).
It is very positive that she still has an appetite and she *might* survive if I separate her. I am not happy with the condition I let her get in or that I am thinking of this... but I may need to euthanize her (using Alka Selzer) to ease her suffering and avoid any disease she has/will get spreading to the other 2 tetras in with her.
I know this is my own judgement call, but this is harder for me to do than in typical circumstances due to the tetra's weakened condition that "could" have been prevented. This said, do you think it is best that I euthanize this fish?
Opinions and input are appreciated.
Thanks.
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Post by Carl on Nov 19, 2011 12:58:15 GMT -5
The question for me is if other fish may be susceptible to her infection (which I believe was caused by other fish' aggression from what you have written.
If there is no evidence of this being anything other than a weak fish being attacked by a rogue opportunistic infection, I would let her be.
Otherwise I would consider euthanizing her
I would also add that I am 95% convinced this is NOT Black Spot disease shown in the link you earlier provided (with it on a silver Dollar)
Baths with MB and Metronidazole would be my only other treatment consideration at this point.
Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Nov 19, 2011 15:45:30 GMT -5
I am unsure if what she has now is contageous or not. I have known fish to show great resistence when other sick fish were in the tank: even from fish that were not the healthiest in some situations. (Ex. 3-4 years ago about, a male guppy who died 6 months after I got him yet somehow did not get infected by the Saprolegnia that infected 2 female guppies killing 1 and infecting the other. The affected female that survived lived 1-2 years more after she recovered.) Other concerns with this fish is in her current state, VERY likely to get something that is contagious in the near future (even IF she doesn't have a contageous ailment like that now) and also her continued suffering from the other two females harrassing her because they sense/know she is not doing well at all. I don't expect her to last more than a month more tops with what is going on and teh other females picking on her.  Things are looking in favor of euthanizing her I am afraid. Renee |
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) and changed 25% of the water at 11am in the morning. I will get the water parameters later today (it is the middle of the night now). I suspect the water parameters are most likely very good.
I think this might be injury or stress induced (though she has never had any spinal injury I know of.) 
