sorority tank

[babygeige]

I decided that I want to make my 30 gallon into a sorority betta tank!
Right now, there's just an angel, celebes rainbow, a scissortail rasbora, and a flying fox in there. So there's plenty of room for 7 or 8 female bettas.

I was going to get starting with 3: I had one in the 30 gallon, and 2 separated in my 5 gallon. I thought that would be a good start. The problem is that one of my bettas died. The one I got from SuzieQ was in the 30 gal and jumped out of a small gap where my old filter outlet used to be.

So now I have the 2 in my 5 gal. What do you think would be the best route to proceed?

1. Move one of the females to the 30 to get established. Then buy another one and have 2 in the 5 gal until I'm sure there's nothing wrong before moving them to the 30 to join the other one.

2. Move both of my current ones into the 30 at the same time.

I'm leaning toward option 1. That way there will be 3 in there at once, so it should help diffuse any aggression.

Unless someone has another idea that would work better?

Oh and I am working on a solution to keep any more fish from jumping out. I suppose I should have done so a while ago, I just never thought that the space was big enough. It was a "perfectly" timed jump.

[goldenpuon]

I do not have a lot of experience with multi-species 30 gallons but have kept female bettas together many times during my 2 years breeding bettas. This is a bigger tank than I ever kept mine in and there are other species which is very good for diffusing aggression. I would say 4 is a good number. Some females are not that aggressive while others are. I have had females that almost ever flared at other females and one that killed other females and tried to kill a male I was breeding her to! The vast majority are not as mean as that female was however.

I think option 2 is probably better. Neither female will have a territory already established that she will want to defend. Of course, with a tank that big, aggression shouldn't be that bad. Lastly, expect some flaring and dominance displays, but because female bettas are more milder mannered than males (in my experience), after they settle down, there should not be much aggression. I have had females together who would swim very close to one another without aggression and also never bothered to claim a part of their tank as their own (all the females could swim where they wanted.) I had two others on one occasion that despised each other and took a lot more effort to settle in without issues while not being that way to other females. To the point, every fish is different.

I would recommend putting in all three of the females you have at once. Two is fine if you cannot add your third at the moment however. Also, don't put in a male with the females if you have one. It can cause much uneeded stress on the females and may end up with them breeding. Lastly, with the current fish you have in the 30 gallon, I think 5 females max is best.

That said, I hope this is not overly detailed and is helpful.

I have had similar issues with fish jumping through holes when the tank is 90% covered (mostly guppies and tetras). They always seem to find a way out if they want to jump.

Best of luck Babygeige!

Renee

[bikeguy33]

i kind of agree with renee here.adding all at once will lower aggression......but agression in females is easily dealt with by often moving tank stuff and lots of plants. a 30 gallon is alot of space for all to have a territory....

aS FOR THE HOLES.....i had to houdini proof a tank for octopus. i bought car wash sponges and cotton to fill all the spaces.....the trick is to never under estimate the cleverness of a fish and seal all holes even if you feel they are to small for anything to get through....

[babygeige]

Thanks, Bill and Renee. I'll put both in at once. I don't have 3 since the one died.

I'm not going to move the current ones until I have 2 more to QT for a while. So the 2 will only be by themselves for a couple of weeks.

I'll let you know how it goes!
Thanks again!

[babygeige]

You know, the more I watch these 2 females interact with each other from opposite sides of the divider, I think it might be better to just move one of them into the big tank at first. Here's why:

The red one seems to attack the divider more to try to get at the other. It kind of makes me worried that she might do some damage to the other one. The blue one might be the less aggressive one, so I may move her first and let her get established a bit first...

Oh, and I also covered up the gap with some plastic needlepoint canvas, so there shouldn't be any more escapes.

[Suzie Q (Lori)]

Your question has been answered but i'll chime in here. I like having a multi-species tank for the simple fact that it is not just the female betta in there. I have had better luck having different types of fish in a sorority. It is like it makes the more aggressive females "not see" the lower ranking females.

[goldenpuon]

Given the circumstances where one is much more aggressive than the other, I think that is the best course of action.

However, if the less aggressive blue betta is put in first, it will be natural (as betta hierachy goes) for the other female to challenge her. If that happens, it would most likely be a brief confrontation (especially in a 30 gallon with other fish). However, if the blue one is put in first and the other is "excessively" aggressive for a female, establishing their hierachy may last longer if the more aggressive female thinks she can win and the established one wants to keep her territory.

Still, putting in the blue one first seems best for the reason that she will not be as likely to be chased or harassed when the red one is put in. As well, the more aggressive red one might very well be content not to bother the blue one or challenge her in this size a tank. That said, the chances are slim that the situation in the above paragraph could happen and even less so that the less aggressive fish would be seriously harmed IMO. Though it is unlikely to happen, it is still something that is probably worth mentioning.

Best of luck Babygeige. I'm sure everything will work out fine.

[babygeige]

I'm forgetting about one important element in this whole thing: my angel fish! She's definitely the queen of the tank. The bettas might be too busy staying out of the angel's way to bother each other too much.

The angel didn't really harass the first betta too much (the one that jumped out) that I could see. When I first put her in there, the angel was in "egg mode," so she was a little aggressive toward the betta, but nothing damaging.

I know I keep going back and forth about this, but I may put both in there at the same time after all, if only to spread out any curiosity the angel has.

I don't plan on making it a species only tank. Right now there's only the angel, a celebes rainbow, a scissortail rasbora, and a flying fox. I'm going to add another species as space frees up (each of of those 4 fish are at least 3 years old...) and when I decide what the species will be, which at this rate...

[babygeige]

I moved the 2 into the 30 gallon just a little while ago, so we'll see how that goes.

I went to the store to get 2 more females to put in QT this afternoon as well. I found 3 that I liked a lot, and couldn't decide which one to put back, so I bought all 3 of them!

I set up my old 1.5 gal for the 3rd one to live in for the next couple of weeks. I don't have a filter for it, but I don't have any issues with doing frequent WC's on a tank that small such a short period of time.

So if all goes as planned, I'll have a 5 female betta sorority in my 30 gallon soon. (fingers crossed)

[goldenpuon]

It sounds like everything worked out well. Best of luck! I bet everything will go very well.

I'm forgetting about one important element in this whole thing: my angel fish! She's definitely the queen of the tank. The bettas might be too busy staying out of the angel's way to bother each other too much.

That is a very good point! Unless it is a baby angel, bettas would be the ones that will try to be cautious around the angelfish even though I doubt it will have any issues with them That will definitely help with diffusing aggression. Good thinking.

Renee

[babygeige]

Here's an update on the little sorority I have in my 30 gallon. I added the last 2 girls to the tank over the weekend - the smallest ones. So that puts me at 5 female bettas. The 3 that were in there got along very well.

I noticed yesterday when I was feeding them that 4 have some tail fin damage. The one that has no damage? The smallest one of the bunch! So I sat there and watched for a few minutes. Sure enough, that little thing is a bit of a snot. She was chasing a couple of the others around pretty good.

I'll be keeping an eye on this for sure. Do you think that adding 2 more would be a good idea? The more the merrier?

[Carl]

I'll be keeping an eye on this for sure. Do you think that adding 2 more would be a good idea? The more the merrier?

IMO for this size tank I say yes.

We kept many more than this in a 20 gallon at our store and a friend in LA who breeds and wholesales fish many more yet (but in a larger tank).

Good Lick with the "Little snot"

Carl

[goldenpuon]

I may be wrong, but I think adding more may be a little too many for a 30 gallon with the angel, rainbow, flying fox, and scissortail in there.

Some aggression (and even minor fin damage) can be expected as the fish work out their pecking order. Fish all have different personalities, normally with the larger ones being more aggressive. Of course, so can smaller fish. I would advise having a pretty large amount of hidiing spots for the females, so they can get away from the more aggressive female easily. I would also like to note that the aggression should taper down quite a bit in the next few days. Once each fish knows where it stands in the hierarchy, they won't need to/try to get dominance over another fish unless there is another change that triggers it. (Ex. New fish, significant tank rearrangement)I have also found that with some fish (not all), that tameness and low tress can decrease aggression. Lastly, if the fin damage is pretty minor, the fins will grow back within a few weeks.

I hope that helps.
Renee

[babygeige]

Thanks for the opinions! I probably can't get to the lfs I want to purchase from until the weekend of the 10th anyway, so I have time to watch things and decide.

I think my tank can handle two more fish. None of the fish I have in there are very messy fish, so I'm not too concerned about the bio-load and there are plenty of rock/wood/plant hiding spaces. If the aggression continues, 2 more will at least help spread it around more. But I do think 2 more would be the max I would add. I may add them anyway, even if the aggression stops. I haven't had this much color in that tank for a while. I've pretty much just had silver, black, or brown fish in there for the last couple of years.

In the meantime, I'm putting medicine in to help with the tail damage. Hopefully things will calm down soon and the girls can grow their fins back!

[babygeige]

I bought 2 more female bettas this weekend. They're pretty young and small. A local breeder had too many to take care of, so he brought them into the lfs. One is a crowntail and the other a double tail. They're very cute! I'll probably wait a few weeks to put them in, just to give them a chance to grow a bit more.

Meanwhile, things have calmed down a bit in the 30 and the girls' tails are starting to grow back. And someone took an opportunity at the little pink one for some payback, because she had a tiny bit of tail damage. Nothing serious though.

One of them decided to jump out of the tank while I was feeding them yesterday! I guess she was just too excited to wait for the food to hit the water. She's fine though. I just pushed her into a net with my finger and threw her back in, lol.

[goldenpuon]

I am glad everything is going well with the bettas (aside from the minor new damage). Congrats on the 2 new ones as well! How old are they? If they are only 2 months old, they may turn out to be males whose fins sometimes don't grow long immedietely or at a slower rate than is normal.

About the jumping, my females used to do this too! They would jump an inch out of the water to grab food out of my hands! It was adorable and didn't train them to do it. Nevertheless, I made sure the tank was pretty well covered in case they decided to "jump for joy" as I called it when I wasn't there/feeding them.

Once again, congrats on your two new additions!

[Suzie Q (Lori)]

Jumping betta= not a good thing ...I lost a male and female out of the 75g in the last 2 weeks

Glad everything seems to be going well for you...I love my sorority when I had it

[goldenpuon]

I do have lost fish from jumping (including bettas) so I always take precautions. Just to clarify that I consider jumping pretty cute when feeding bettas but not any time else nopr a good thing.

[babygeige]

A different one jumped out the other day at dinner time! Those girls are just crazy! I do have the lid jump-proof now, so I can't have any escape attempts when I'm not around anymore, like I had with the girlie I got from SuzieQ.

Thanks to Renee and Carl, I've decided that one of those new females is most likely a male, so he will be moving into his own apartment soon. I'm pretty confident the other is a female, but I'll keep her separate for a few more weeks just to be on the safe side.

[babygeige]

Well after all that, I still just have the 5 in my 30 gallon tank. I have the one fish that was sold to me as a female in his own 2.5 gallon tank, and I decided the female I got at the same time is too pretty to put in there to possibly have her tail get nipped. So she's living in the 5 gallon tank by herself where she can't get hurt.

The 5 that are together seemed to have calmed down a bit. I see them chase each other every now and then, but everyone's tails are growing back in, so I think it'll be ok.