Goldie near death's doors...need HELP quick!

[goldiegirl]

" I forgot to mention that his neck (if that's what you'd call it) was a bit pinkish and swollen immediately after the gasping Sunday night"

Is this the area on his gills or somewhere else? A picture would be very very helpful.

It isn't near his gills at all. Completely different area. You can kind of see it in the video if you look very closely, although the quality isn't the best. It's directly under his mouth...that's the best way I can describe it.

"- he isn't gasping as much/breathing as heavily BUT I now notice that underneath his gills is abnormally red...not so much the wispy clear gills moving up and down as he breaths, but underneath that if that makes sense...:( It has only gotten redder as I didn't even notice that before. Maybe now that he's breathing less rapidly I can actually see inside there and see the damage...possibly? Not sure what to do about this...Furan 2? Or would it more be ammonia damage than an infection per say?"

That is possible since if he isn't struggling for breath so much now, his gill filaments might be sticking closer together so you can see into his gills since he is still breathing heavily if that makes sense. However, this could be damage as well if his gills were severely hurt (which I think they are unfortunately...). I know you want to help this fish but I would hold off on the Furan 2. Until can see a picture so I can tell what if this fish has a secondary infection ass well as ammonia and nitrite poisoning, I would strongly advice holding off on any medications besides continuing the MB baths and adding Prime which I VERY much recommend in this case. I do not think your tank is stable right now with the ammonia going up and the medicane (Maracyn 1 and 2) you have put in. Adding anything else could mean the end of the fish or another spike which I consider very possible right now.

I think I'm going to take out the meds today and just let the tank be, doing 10% water changes daily for the next week or so just so that the ammonia doesn't spike if the meds got rid of beneficial bacteria. I also just bought Seachem de-nitrate rocks to put in front of the carbon filter...good bacteria apparently grows well on them and over time this is supposed to really keep levels down. Any experience with the product? Either good or bad?

"-tail and fins are ripped from his thrashing around...not ripped as in fin/tail rot ripped...it honestly just ripped after a thrashing session"

Sorry to hear this. The fins are probably more likely to tear given this fish's weakened state and the ammonia poisoning. Out of curiousity, what was teh situtation tyhe fish was trashing in? In a net, randomly in the tank, on its side or scraping against something, etc?


It was just randomly in the tank after he had what looked like a seizure :( Thankfully it isn't too bad. The vitachem is supposed to help with damaged tissue as well.

"I took your advice with covering the tank Renee!!! However, I didn't cover with a towel as I was afraid of the tank getting too hot during the day and I didn't want to alter anything that would stress him. So I put up pieces of paper and taped them to the rim around the glass...seems to have the same effect! or atleast I'm assuming! the rest of the tank is covered with "grass" looking wallpaper"

That is good you are attempting to cover the tankand kudos on taking that effort. Just to make sure, is the paper making the inside of the tank look dimmer/darker? The goal of covering the tank with towels or similar is to make the tank darker which helps with stress. Any material work as long as it darkens the tank. I used cardboard around a 5 gallon tank a couple times to get the same effect without actually using towels. Glad to hear you are trying this!

Yes, it does make it darker as it is very black construction paper! When I look through the sides it is much darker inside the tank! Yay! He seems to like it so I'll probably leave them up for a while.


"Oh, and I wasn't there for the flashing/darting during the water change but my Dad said it was slightly abnormal compared to his normal behavior! probably not due to anything but water quality issues though "

That is good to know. When you say "flashing", do you mean itching or rubbing against things? That is what flashing normally refers to my knowledge.


I kind of mean mindlessly darting around the tank and hitting things...sometimes itching and rubbing against things but it really hasn't been happening in the last few days which is good :)

Nitrates are the least toxic of the three things that build up in one's water from the nitrogen cycle. Ammonia is VERY toxic, followed by nitrite in toxicity, which is followed by nitrate. Nitrate is something found in every aquarium that is cycled basically. First comes ammonia which is converted to nitrite by nitrifying bacteria which is then converted to nitrate by the bacteria. It takes a while for this bacteria to get established which is why ammonia and nitrite levels are high often when a tank is first set up after fish are added. Nitrate is different than nitrite. Nitrate should be kept lower than 40ppm unless you have a tank with live plants which consume nitrate and keep the levels low.

I have never heard of this treatement for nitrate poisoning. I don't know if it works or not but the focus should be on treating ammonia and nitrite poisoning, not nitrate poisoning in this case. Nitrate can hurt fish and stunt them at high levels but ammonia and nitrite is much worse.

Though I have not heard of the chamber treatment, I must say I do not think equalizing internal pressure has anything to do with nitrate poisoning or even ammonia or nitrite poisoning. Fish whirl, lose control of their bodies, and are carried in the current from this as a result of the fish's body shutting down due to the ammonia and nitrite in the water, when dying from disease, or just dying in general. (Not so much nitrate in the short-term unless it is at VERY high levels). Getting oxygen to fish is good but the MB does the same thing and not to say chlorophyll would not work for fish, but I am not sure if it has any side effects when put into the water or how effective it is. Since I do not know much about the chlorophyll, since it is proven not to have side-effects for fish even when overdosed and is proven to very much help fish with getting oxygen, staying with the MB baths would be the best course of action IMO. Plus in the chamber, unless you use a material with nitrifying bacteria established already in it from a cycled tank, you can expect levels of nitrite, ammonia, and nitrate to rise to dangerous levels in the container used for teh chamber treatment. I do not recommend this most fo all for this reason. Also, keeping water temperatures of 50-60F in the summer is difficult to say the least and would stress the fish with the major temp drop unless it is done over a period of days. As well, goldfish cannot be safetly fed much or at all below 55F due to the low temperature which has to do with digestion and slowing of their metabolism due to the lower temperature. So the recommendation to feed at anything lower than any temperature less than in the high 50's is asking for trouble in my opinion and a very bad recommendation IMO if your fish eats teh food put in. As well, in an uncycled body of water, ammonia will go up just from being released from the fish's gills naturally and purposely having leftover food is inviting pathogens such as saprolegnia and mold which consume leftover food and can also attack fish.

Also, with this treatment, there seems to be confused that nitrate is a huge killer when ammonia and nitrite are what should be worried about mainly.

Yea, it seemed funky. I just thought maybe if it increased oxygen it could maybe help with ammonia poisoning too. I did know ammonia was most dangerous, then nitrite then nitrate. Just thought I'd see if the same thing worked for ammonia. Definitely not going to try the chamber thing...seems like a disaster waiting to happen IMO! Just found it interesting that someone uses this technique.

I hope yoru fish makes it and that you manage to get your tank stable. Best of luck!


Thank you! I'm trying to just simplify now! Gonna remove meds and correct the RO water without stressing him :)

*I am not sure how you missed the suggested products for correcting RO water, as they are listed in the Osmoregulation article.
Here they are again as a paste from the article:
Products that can aid in re-mineralizing RO water (many can be/should be used with other products for complete re-mineralization that includes carbonates)

Basic Electrolyte Replenishing Products:
*SeaChem Replenish; Similar to Kent RO Right and API ElectroRight as a primary trace element/electrolyte replenishing product, although this product does add some buffers.
*Kent RO Right This is for basic trace elements, electrolytes, this product does not add most necessary buffers and most major minerals that are especially necessary for general freshwater fish tanks, especially livebearers, African Cichlids, and Goldfish.
*Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Electro Right; As with Kent RO Right, this is for basic trace elements, electrolytes, this product does not add most necessary buffers and most major minerals that are especially necessary for general freshwater fish tanks, especially livebearers, African Cichlids, and Goldfish.

KH Buffers & GH/Mineral Additives:
*SeaChem Alkaline Buffer along with SeaChem Acid Buffer For balanced carbonate/bicarbonates for correct KH & pH.
These are generally used for planted or low pH/soft water aquariums.
*SeaChem Malawi Buffer (or SeaChem Marine Buffer); this would be the buffer of choice (used as directed) for Livebearers, Goldfish, African Cichlids, and similar higher pH/KH fish. I suggest using 1/2 the recommended amount in your RO water prior to addition to your aquarium then add to this until the desired KH is reached.
*SeaChem Cichlid Salt (similar to SeaChem Buffer along with added sodium chloride salts)
*Wonder Shells (an important compliment mineral replenisher; mixes well with Electro Right, Replenish, RO Right, SeaChem Buffer) or the similar SeaChem Equalibrium
*SeaChem Equalibrium; Similar to Wonder Shells or AragoMight, but with more emphasis on Potassium and thus planted aquariums. In most cases I have found this product NOT the better choice.

These products can be used separately or together. The API ElectroRight, Kent RO Right only adds important trace minerals and no carbonates and is usually inadequate by itself. I generally would soak a Wonder Shell in RO water and then add Buffers (often both acid and alkaline for correct balance) or Cichlid or Marine Salt to further replenish major and minor elements as well as carbonates (which Wonders Shells have little carbonates).


Sorry! I asked the wrong question! ...I didn't miss these products as I wrote them all down to try and find them at the store. What I meant was that although I know they can all be combined together, I wasn't sure which products of the ones listed exactly works best with RO Right. As in which products already have the same trace elements as this product and which ones would compliment. Could I combine RO Right, Seachem Malawi Buffer, a Wondershell, and Seachem Replenish for the right combination to restore RO water???

I'm assuming adding these straight to the tank right now would shock him, correct?? Should I wait until he's stronger to mess with the water chemistry (besides ridding the water of toxins i.e. ammonia, nitrate, nitrite?)

Erythromycin (Maracyn 1) is mostly gram positive (about 95%) as are nitrifying bacteria and this product is generally known as per its dangers to nitrifying bacteria. This is not to say it is without its use (as I have and do use it when it is called for)
Maracyn II is not quite so harsh, but it is still more of a gram positive antibiotic and the combination with Maracyn I makes for a potent "good bacteria" killer.


Great :( I guess once it's out of the water I'm going to perform 10% water changes daily while adding nitrifying bacteria to re-cycle the tank... I wish I knew sooner what was going on with him. Maracyn I/II is what I had on hand and at the point where he looked as though he was literally dying I was desperate to try anything. Hopefully I can stabilize everything. I currently have to RO Right and Seachem Replenish and am willing to go buy the additional products just don't want to add another stresser now that he seems to be getting stronger/better

Thanks guys!

[goldiegirl]

Oh! And in the video you will notice he is missing some scales---this didn't occur when the ammonia spiked (or whatever is the current issue). He's been missing scales since I bought him

[sammiesam]

Hi goldiegirl - welcome to the forum even though I am a little late. It looks like Carl and Renee have this under control but I just wanted to add that with goldies, genetics seems to play a large part of health problems.
I currently have a goldie I've had for 5 years and he has been 'battling' illness symptoms for about a year now with no treatments seeming to help him out. So it may be possible that part of the problem is just genetic.
I know that's not really helpful I just wanted to add that in there and you're doing a great job taking care of him and trying to help him as much as you can, so you should feel good about that regardless.
I hope the best for your fishie

[goldiegirl]

thanks sammiesam! that makes me feel better in knowing I'm not alone. It probably is partially the fact that goldfish are bred in certain conditions that don't support them later in life :/ It's sad and hard when you really do love your goldie and want him/her to survive as long as possible. Thanks for the kind words

[goldenpuon]

Hi goldeigirl. I just watched the video and though the fish seems like he is in quite bad shape, I am very pleased to see him swimming around and when he bumps his nose into soemthing in the tank, how he turns properly and doesn't hit the tank walls.

"It isn't near his gills at all. Completely different area. You can kind of see it in the video if you look very closely, although

the quality isn't the best. It's directly under his mouth...that's the best way I can describe it. "

I watched the video about 5 times and finally saw the reddish area under his head. I believe (it is a tad hard to tell due to the video quality) this is from the ammonia poisoning. The gills extend to the underside of a goldfish's neck as well as the sides (aka) behind their mouth's.

I found a picture to demonstrate the area I believe you are talking about shown in a picture of a dead goldfish with the underside of its neck (gill area) exposed.
deathgleaner.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/r-i-p-dgoldfish/

Also, your fish's gills are VERY swollen. The red on the insides of the gills you can see easily when he breathes is from respiratory distress and is the appearance of the the normal redish area within a goldfish's gills that is not normally notceable. Only it is redder due in coloration due to gill damage and irriation. This is very normal for a fish with inflamed gills. The gill layers sticking out like earlier likely covered that up because of its severity. The fact that you are able to see the red in his very swollen gills that are not as puffed out as before is a good sign because it means some of the swelling has gone down. And so is the fish not having seizures and flashing/darting as much.

I also noticed a very noticable lump on the top of your fish's head. However, this kind of thing is normal in some fish such as lionheads and oranda or mixes of such and otehr goldfish varieties. Was that there before the ammonia poisoning incident? This concerns me if this was not like that before.

For the flashing, since he was not trying to itch, this further shows this is not parasites. It sounds like the fish was in shock and trying to escape from the ammonia/something toxic in the water. (aka, the excitability I was mentioning earlier.) I can not be sure this is 100% correct, btu I suspect hitting itself against the glass was the fish instinctually trying to escape from the tank in an effort to get more air and so was the thrashing (also shock like I just mentioned). In other words, the fish was suffocating and reacting as such after failing to get enough air for a prolonged period of time.

To answer your question from earlier, sponge filters are not generally hooked up to a biowheel filter such as yours from my knowledge. They have a plastic area you put a sponge. The sponge filter has an area for airline tubing to be attached. It is hooked up to a bubbler to work. Please see this article on Sponge Filtration to see how they work.

It was hard to see fin damage in the photo other than the fish's dorsel fin (the one on his back) looks bent. But this could be from it putting that fin down (aka clamping it against its body) which is normal in a stressful situation. His pelvic and pectoral fins (the two set of paired fins on the fish on its belly and side look unusually small. Have they always been so small?

Also, with the darkness, try to keep the tank like that for over a week due to the amount of stress teh fish has went through. I am glad the fish seems to be liking it. If you notice the fish more rapdily recovering or not holding its fins close to its body (which I assume happened because this is normal when goldfish are stressed), it is very likely the darkness is playing a part.

Yeah, that treatment did not sound like something that would work for sure and don't think it could be accomplished really except in a very controlled/monitored environment with a chiller to cool the water and other exytra stuff.

"Thank you! I'm trying to just simplify now! Gonna remove meds and correct the RO water without stressing him "

Good to hear! It seems like he is doing much better than you first described in your first post.

"Sorry! I asked the wrong question! ...I didn't miss these products as I wrote them all down to try and find them at the store. What I meant was that although I know they can all be combined together, I wasn't sure which products of the ones listed exactly works best with RO Right. As in which products already have the same trace elements as this product and which ones would compliment. Could I combine RO Right, Seachem Malawi Buffer, a Wondershell, and Seachem Replenish for the right combination to restore RO water???"

Although these products can be safely combined, I would not recommend adding more than 3 of the same (depending of if you have a planted aquarium with fish with high KH and GH needs or an unplanted aquarium).

For your goldfish, I would recommend using either using Replenish since you are using RO water (Perhaps a little less than the recommened dose since you are already using the Kent product) and SeaChem Marine Buffer OR SeaChem Malawi/Victoria Buffer during water changes and also when water changes are not being done if needed as well.

NOTE: Seachem Marine and Seachem Malawi/Victoria buffers are very very similar and that is why I said "or". However, if you use one, (though it is safe to), don't use the other because they serve the same function.

Your aquarium does not have live plants right? This could affect what you use slightly out of these products if you do.

I would recommend adding these to your RO water and letting them dissolve for 10 minutes before adding (since some of these can come in powdered form and fish don't seem to like the powder getting near them before they dissolve.

But since this is RO water, I would recommend putting it in the RO water and waiting 12 hours or so the water's KH and GH can start to rise from the use of these. I say this because the RO water has a very low KH and GH and it is better to let the KH and GH to equalize a bit before adding it to the water. Also, since yoru fish is stressed at the moment (although these products are gentle and raise levels slowly), putting in the recommended dose with every 10% water change until your KH slowly reaches 150-190 and your GH 250-300. water should be tested and these products should be added ad needed afterward to maintain these levels. They should be added during water changes unless the KH and GH is too high. In that case, adding half of what you would normally add for the % of new water added should work. Also, waste or mulm buildup reduces KH or GH (I forgot if it was one or both) so that is another reason wnhy tank cleaning is important. These products and cleaning will also help with Redox.

Prime is also good for keeping Ammonia levels down (not a substitute for good aquarium maintence of course). It does not eradicate ammonia completely but rather detoxifies it so nitrifying bacteria can still consume it and build up in your tank and at the same time, makes the ammonia detoxified harmless to the fish. I am not totally sure of this but if you use Prime, existing Ammonia may not show up when you test water unless you have more than the amount of Prime you added detoxifies. Prime also does teh same to nitrite.

Last, have you tried feeding the fish since this started? I would recommend starting feeding once per day sparsingly of its regular food if you have not. If the fish does not eat, try to get out the uneaten food with as little disturbance as possible. If the fish finishes its food the first day and it eats all of its food the second, try feeding a little more after it has finished the initial amount on the second day and slowly increasing more from there as needed until you are up to feeding yoru fish what it normally eats. Decrease the amount if it does not finish all of it until it is better. I am recommending to start feeding now because it looks as if the fish has recovered tp the point where it *may* start to slowly start to eat again. I say to feed sparsingly at first and slowly increase because any leftover food will lead to greater ammonia buildup and uneaten food (even in a cycled tank) is not something that is good.

Also, be on the lookout for any white or cottony growth on the fish's gill area and head! The gills are extremely fragile and the equivalent of an open wound now and is very very open to infection. Also, saprolegnia which attacks uneaten food will also attack weakened fish's wounds so this is a place to be cautious when resuming feeding if you have not at this point! Also, anywhere that there was fin damage is also open to infection (not as much as the gills though) due to teh fin damage and the ammonia poisoning.

Also, any other diseases in general could gain a hold right now so also make sure your fish does not get any others though the gills are still the most likely place for an infection to take hold.

Your fish from what I can see is far from totally out of the woods so to speak but is noe recovering and is slowly going past the state of being next to death. However, please continue with the MB baths and 10% water changes daily. The fish is far from totally recovered but seems somewhat stable and no longer right at death's door.

I am warning you about these diseases because now that I have seen how the fish is doing on the video and getting past the moment of acting to save its life, other issues can be focused on more. Still, do not stop testing ammonia levels by any means. Another spike could kill the fish easily and lead it back to point A of this or worse.

Note: I do not see any signs of the diseases I told you to be watchful for in your video of the fish so they are soemthing to look out for, NOT something I see your fish has right now.

Lastly, if something does show up (it may or may not), do not medicate the very second you see the disease or panic (as this can lead to overanalyzing and being more likelyn to put in meds without thinking it out first). Take a few hours to research the best med to put in before doing so and also try to identify the disease if your fish gets one. I have had situations where I medicated with something only to think, "Oh no", I had access to the right medication but did not identify the disease or look at what the meds I have treat and put in the right one.

As I mentioned prior, the very good news is I don't see any so your fish is fine and not doing anything other than what you have been is all that is needed for now! I don't want to get your hopes too far up in case your fish takes a sudden turn for the worse but if everything is done right, I would say this fish has a decent chance of survival.

Note: I know I gave a lot of advice here and hope I am not coming across as telling you what to do or being overly blunt. These are suggestion pertaining to experience and what I would recommend doing and do myself in this situation. I want to help you, not force you to do anything.

Very good job with your fish! Keep up the good work! He seems to be recovering well.

Renee

[parker002]

I absolutely recommend the use of Seachem Prime for preventing ammonia poisoning.

As goldenpuon mentioned, it doesn't bind ammonia like most products do, leaving them to be "unbound" later when you least expect it, killing your fish.

The "detoxified" ammonia is still consumable by nitrifying bacteria so you won't harm the bio-cycle using it. Ultimately, you NEED the bio-cycle to be complete and stable to prevent ongoing and continuous ammonia problems.

[goldiegirl]

I watched the video about 5 times and finally saw the reddish area under his head. I believe (it is a tad hard to tell due to the video quality) this is from the ammonia poisoning. The gills extend to the underside of a goldfish's neck as well as the sides (aka) behind their mouth's.


I didn't realize the gills extended this far! wow! guess it was the gills It's only become puffier...weird since he seems to be getting better :/ At first it was just a tad swollen and red...now it's more swollen, less red

I found a picture to demonstrate the area I believe you are talking about shown in a picture of a dead goldfish with the underside of its neck (gill area) exposed.
deathgleaner.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/r-i-p-dgoldfish/

Yeah, that's it! You're so knowledgeable! I would have had no idea that was part of the gill as it's seemingly so separate.


I also noticed a very noticable lump on the top of your fish's head. However, this kind of thing is normal in some fish such as lionheads and oranda or mixes of such and otehr goldfish varieties. Was that there before the ammonia poisoning incident? This concerns me if this was not like that before.

I'm actually not sure I don't notice any difference in his head area prior to and after the ammonia poisoning. It certainly is possible. I just think his body seems more curved and angular in random spots in general. I noticed his head looked weird but I figured it was from the bump extending on his underside (now known to be his gills). It's very possible there is something additional. I don't notice it to be much different than before though. Hmm

It was hard to see fin damage in the photo other than the fish's dorsel fin (the one on his back) looks bent. But this could be from it putting that fin down (aka clamping it against its body) which is normal in a stressful situation. His pelvic and pectoral fins (the two set of paired fins on the fish on its belly and side look unusually small. Have they always been so small?


Not always but for a long long time. He continued to lose fins in a strange ongoing case of fin/tail rot and they never grew back. Always tried to fix it but nothing worked well enough. He seems to get a long fine though and they don't continue to decay which is good. But yes, this was there long before the incident.

Also, with the darkness, try to keep the tank like that for over a week due to the amount of stress teh fish has went through. I am glad the fish seems to be liking it. If you notice the fish more rapdily recovering or not holding its fins close to its body (which I assume happened because this is normal when goldfish are stressed), it is very likely the darkness is playing a part.


I'll keep it there for sure


Quote:
"Sorry! I asked the wrong question! ...I didn't miss these products as I wrote them all down to try and find them at the store. What I meant was that although I know they can all be combined together, I wasn't sure which products of the ones listed exactly works best with RO Right. As in which products already have the same trace elements as this product and which ones would compliment. Could I combine RO Right, Seachem Malawi Buffer, a Wondershell, and Seachem Replenish for the right combination to restore RO water???"


Although these products can be safely combined, I would not recommend adding more than 3 of the same (depending of if you have a planted aquarium with fish with high KH and GH needs or an unplanted aquarium).

For your goldfish, I would recommend using either using Replenish since you are using RO water (Perhaps a little less than the recommened dose since you are already using the Kent product) and SeaChem Marine Buffer OR SeaChem Malawi/Victoria Buffer during water changes and also when water changes are not being done if needed as well.

NOTE: Seachem Marine and Seachem Malawi/Victoria buffers are very very similar and that is why I said "or". However, if you use one, (though it is safe to), don't use the other because they serve the same function.

Thanks! That answered my question!

Your aquarium does not have live plants right? This could affect what you use slightly out of these products if you do.


No it doesn't!

I would recommend adding these to your RO water and letting them dissolve for 10 minutes before adding (since some of these can come in powdered form and fish don't seem to like the powder getting near them before they dissolve.

But since this is RO water, I would recommend putting it in the RO water and waiting 12 hours or so the water's KH and GH can start to rise from the use of these. I say this because the RO water has a very low KH and GH and it is better to let the KH and GH to equalize a bit before adding it to the water. Also, since yoru fish is stressed at the moment (although these products are gentle and raise levels slowly), putting in the recommended dose with every 10% water change until your KH slowly reaches 150-190 and your GH 250-300. water should be tested and these products should be added ad needed afterward to maintain these levels. They should be added during water changes unless the KH and GH is too high. In that case, adding half of what you would normally add for the % of new water added should work. Also, waste or mulm buildup reduces KH or GH (I forgot if it was one or both) so that is another reason wnhy tank cleaning is important. These products and cleaning will also help with Redox.


Can I do this now when he is already stressed? or should I wait until he's a bit stronger?


Prime is also good for keeping Ammonia levels down (not a substitute for good aquarium maintence of course). It does not eradicate ammonia completely but rather detoxifies it so nitrifying bacteria can still consume it and build up in your tank and at the same time, makes the ammonia detoxified harmless to the fish. I am not totally sure of this but if you use Prime, existing Ammonia may not show up when you test water unless you have more than the amount of Prime you added detoxifies. Prime also does teh same to nitrite.

Hmm for some reason I've always been scared to use prime. It goes directly in the tank, correct?? I'll see if I can get some

Last, have you tried feeding the fish since this started? I would recommend starting feeding once per day sparsingly of its regular food if you have not. If the fish does not eat, try to get out the uneaten food with as little disturbance as possible. If the fish finishes its food the first day and it eats all of its food the second, try feeding a little more after it has finished the initial amount on the second day and slowly increasing more from there as needed until you are up to feeding yoru fish what it normally eats. Decrease the amount if it does not finish all of it until it is better. I am recommending to start feeding now because it looks as if the fish has recovered tp the point where it *may* start to slowly start to eat again. I say to feed sparsingly at first and slowly increase because any leftover food will lead to greater ammonia buildup and uneaten food (even in a cycled tank) is not something that is good.


I've actually been feeding him the whole time, just MUCH less than normal. He doesn't appear to be eating I'm making sure I get out all uneaten food with each water change

Also, be on the lookout for any white or cottony growth on the fish's gill area and head! The gills are extremely fragile and the equivalent of an open wound now and is very very open to infection. Also, saprolegnia which attacks uneaten food will also attack weakened fish's wounds so this is a place to be cautious when resuming feeding if you have not at this point! Also, anywhere that there was fin damage is also open to infection (not as much as the gills though) due to teh fin damage and the ammonia poisoning.

Also, any other diseases in general could gain a hold right now so also make sure your fish does not get any others though the gills are still the most likely place for an infection to take hold.

I'm definitely going to be on the look out! My dad is continuously checking for me while I'm at work as well! Hopefully I won't have to treat for anything else :/ and hopefully the maracyns got rid of any potential bacterial infections to come...I'm continuing the MB Baths so hopefully that also helps!


Lastly, if something does show up (it may or may not), do not medicate the very second you see the disease or panic (as this can lead to overanalyzing and being more likelyn to put in meds without thinking it out first). Take a few hours to research the best med to put in before doing so and also try to identify the disease if your fish gets one. I have had situations where I medicated with something only to think, "Oh no", I had access to the right medication but did not identify the disease or look at what the meds I have treat and put in the right one.

I would panic! I'll make sure and post a picture or something so we can all add our opinions. Crossing my fingers that nothing shows up

As I mentioned prior, the very good news is I don't see any so your fish is fine and not doing anything other than what you have been is all that is needed for now! I don't want to get your hopes too far up in case your fish takes a sudden turn for the worse but if everything is done right, I would say this fish has a decent chance of survival.


I can see in his eyes he is much happier/less stressed. I can always tell when his eyes look strained or crazed that something is up. Glad he's looking up and I'm really hoping he makes it through this ;D

Note: I know I gave a lot of advice here and hope I am not coming across as telling you what to do or being overly blunt. These are suggestion pertaining to experience and what I would recommend doing and do myself in this situation. I want to help you, not force you to do anything.

Nonono! You're helping! I like it! I promise!...and isn't that what a help forum is for you're doing a great job

[goldenpuon]

Yeah, the gills on a goldfish extend pretty far down. Some species of fish (technicially bony fish) such as sharks only have
gill slits visible and no evidence of gills on their underside and some other fish have a smaller gill area.

I would keep a close eye on the swelling but not be too worried unless some kind of infection starts to show up. I have not had many fish that have gone through and survived what your's has gone through. Though I lack a lot experience with gill swelling as compared to some areas (I have had this in some live fish and commonly on freshly dead fish for which it is normal for the gills to be extended/swollen a bit in some cases) , I am pretty sure teh swelling is just an after effect or maybe the fish's body trying to protect or repair the gills or even an adaptation to get more oxygen. I am glad to hear the redness is going down. The fish's gills should return to normal or near-normal size in time (I cannot be sure how long). I think the majority of the damage will probably be permanent unfortunately. This means the fish will be more sensitive to lack of oxygen or ammonia in its water. I am 80-90% sure this is severe ammonia and/or nitrite poisoning (the other percentage would be this happening from some kind foriegn toxin substance like soap, chemicals, etc to the tank but it is very doubtful since you are so careful.)

]Is the lump/swollen area on the bottom on its neck where its gills are getting any bigger, smaller, or more red relative to the rest of the swollen gills?

"Yeah, that's it! You're so knowledgeable! I would have had no idea that was part of the gill as it's seemingly so separate."

Thanks for the compliment. XD I definitely a lot.

"I'm actually not sure I don't notice any difference in his head area prior to and after the ammonia poisoning. It certainly is possible. I just think his body seems more curved and angular in random spots in general. I noticed his head looked weird but I figured it was from the bump extending on his underside (now known to be his gills). It's very possible there is something additional. I don't notice it to be much different than before though. Hmm."

The curving/angularness is from the trauma and near death the fish went through likely. I think the fish will look a lot more normal once the gills stop swelling as much. The gills do not extend to the very top of the head (to my knowledge) where I saw what looks like the swelling. It may be possible the whole head was affected. I know goldfish have sensory pits at both side of their head near the top and also a spot on top that looks somewhat similar in structure to the outside of gills when they are not inflamed because it is not covered with small scales like the rest of the body.

To better show you want I mean, here are some pictures of a oranda goldfish (bred for head growth (probably not actually technically swelling)) and my own goldfish Puon that suffers from sever fluid retention problems and is very slowly getting worse with time. (Puon has some kind of genetic issue I think and treatment does not seem to do much.)

Oranda
www.flickr.com/photos/the_naturalist/2014694226/

Puon-my goldfish- This fish has either fluid retention around its head or the slight bump is genetic.

i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/100_4624-1.jpg

"Not always but for a long long time. He continued to lose fins in a strange ongoing case of fin/tail rot and they never grew back. Always tried to fix it but nothing worked well enough. He seems to get a long fine though and they don't continue to decay which is good. But yes, this was there long before the incident."

That is good to hear. That obviously has nothing to do with what happened then which is very good.

I am glad I answered your question. And about the live plants, since you do not have any, the combo I suggested is the one I would most recommend. I had asked after to make sure since some plants like certain nutrients and such in thier water which some of the products listed have and others don't as much.

Yes, but slowly since the fish is weak and this should be done slowly anyway to allow the fish to adjust (even though this is *very* good for it). You should start now IMO. The increased mineralization and better redox will help the fish (which results in higher KH and GH). What it is basically is more calcium, magnesium, and other minerals that the fish needs in its water. Goldfish need water conditions that are more hard and alkaline (higher GH and KH). Out of curiousity, what were the numbers you got for KH, GH, and PH last time you tested. Ex. GH 210, KH 120, PH 7.4?

Prime can safely be added right to the tank. However, when doing water changes, mixing it with the water being added does not hurt. Prime naturally smells very sulfery as well which is very normal but will not make your tank smell funny at all once it is added and mixes with the water. I wondered if it had spoiled when I first used Prime and noticed the odor when I opened the bottle and was happy to later discover it was normal from others who used it.

You may want to try feeding him a different food which is high in nutrition if he continues not to eat. Not anything meaty such as bloodworms as these are things that can cause constiopation anyway in goldfish. Besides. goldfish are more herbivores than omnviores. I am glad to hear you are getting all the uneaten food out. That is very good.

I hope I didn't scare you there. No need to panic. I am very impressed with how he is doing from what I saw. The fact that he is recovering also shows further he is not infected with anything. He would likely be getting worse instead of better if he was ill. Also how he has been recovering points to that though he is very weakened, his immune system and body are working to make him stronger. Fish tend to get sick when they are stressed so the fact that he is getting better makes is another positive sign.

"I would panic! I'll make sure and post a picture or something so we can all add our opinions. Crossing my fingers that nothing shows up"

I understand. I am glad you would post here firstfor opinions/advice too.

You are not alone with getting scared about fish btw. I had a scare with one of my own goldfish this morning. I woke up earlier than I usually do (I am a night owl) and some of my goldfish were still waking up a little around 10am (night owls too possibly? lol). I felt panicked when I saw my goldfish Alden on the bottom with what looked like some white stuff growing on the bottom half of its tail fin. (This fish sometimes has white discolorations on its tail fin that go away and come back. This has been like that for almost 3 years now.) Still, it was more than usual and seemed to have appeared overnight.

But this goldfish was not known for ever going to the bottom and was very worried especially since I was not expecting to me home until late to see it again. As it turns out, it was fine. As soon as Alden saw me, it got off the bottom and started begging me for food like crazy. It went nuts when I fed it and was fine. Tonight when I looked at it, most to all of the white on its tail was gone. This fish has a very sensitive tail fin it seems so sleeping on the bottom where there is a little waste (not much since I keep my tanks VERY clean) probably did it.

This is not to say not treating is best n every situation like this. However, I have had this fish about 5 1/2 years and know what is normal for it and when to let the fish be or take action as well as knowing it very well in general. So I knew what to do based on how it did while I was observing it.

I am very glad to read that he is improving further. The odds are looking more and more in favor that he will live. ;D

"Nonono! You're helping! I like it! I promise!...and isn't that what a help forum is for you're doing a great job"

Thank you. Very true. Sometimes I get worried I am overdoing it on advice or be too forceful with my advice. Just making sure.

P.S. If you could post another video in the next couple days, I would like that to see how your fish is doing and how much it has recovered since I watched the last one. This is if you have time of course. This video is not as important as the last one since I had only a description of what was going on before seeing the first video.

Take care!

Renee

[Carl]

It appears most of your questions have been answered!

I will add a few points after watching your video and reading this forum thread

*After watching you video, I can say with 90% certainty that you goldfish is not suffering from any major infection, rather his spine curvature and other outward body signs are very indicative of a goldfish that is suffering from either or a combination of:
-Old Age
-Weak Genetics
-lack of minerals for proper osmoregulation and health of organs and bones
MOST likely all three.

Unfortunately at this point much cannot be undone, but you can certainly improve his quality of life.

The use of Wonder Shells and Marine or Malawi Buffer along with your RO Right is the most simple start (Wonder shells constantly add minerals and essential positive ions) while the Marine or Malawi Buffer add essential KH buffer along with minerals/ions initially.

*I would discontinue treatment, but for may some MB Baths with salt (no meds)

*SeaChem De-Nitrate is an older version of SeaChem Matrix (most aquarium maintenance businesses have since discontinued use of De-Nitrate). I have used it extensively, but the results from Matrix are much better due to much more internal surface area

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Hi goldie. How is your fish doing? Any better? I hope your goldfish is doing well and he is more like his old self now.

Renee

[goldiegirl]

Hi guys!

I'm sorry for the late response. I've been out of town on a business trip and thus had to result to my dad taking care of my fishy for some days. He's a great caretaker (particularly with fish) and I outlined EVERYTHING he had to do (including water changes each day).

GOOD NEWS: MY GOLDIE HAS BEEN EATING!!!! (Since Thursday) Good sign, right?! I'm hoping that means he's coming out of everything!

The bump underneath his mouth (the gills) is still slightly bumpy, but overall he is swimming better. He sometimes goes up to get air strangely, but other than that I can't say I see anything noticeably wrong with his gill area or fins (which you told me to look for). I have had my dad look each day with my direction and now that I'm back I do not see anything either. I bough seachem malawi and replenish to use as well

I'm going to continue watching him but for now he's still trucking along. Seems like a miracle fish to me! I'm so so grateful!

I can try to take a video now that I'm home to upload to this blog so you can see the progress

He doesn't look much different apart from the fact he is eating. Although, maybe you will see things I do not.

Thanks for all the help! You're the best!

Hope all is well!

[goldiegirl]

Jul 3, 2011 21:56:59 GMT -5 goldiegirl said:

Hi guys!

I'm sorry for the late response. I've been out of town on a business trip and thus had to result to my dad taking care of my fishy for some days. He's a great caretaker (particularly with fish) and I outlined EVERYTHING he had to do (including water changes each day).

GOOD NEWS: MY GOLDIE HAS BEEN EATING!!!! (Since Thursday) Good sign, right?! I'm hoping that means he's coming out of everything!

The bump underneath his mouth (the gills) is still slightly bumpy, but overall he is swimming better. He sometimes goes up to get air strangely, but other than that I can't say I see anything noticeably wrong with his gill area or fins (which you told me to look for). I have had my dad look each day with my direction and now that I'm back I do not see anything either. I bough seachem malawi and replenish to use as well

I'm going to continue watching him but for now he's still trucking along. Seems like a miracle fish to me! I'm so so grateful!

I can try to take a video now that I'm home to upload to this blog so you can see the progress

He doesn't look much different apart from the fact he is eating. Although, maybe you will see things I do not.

Thanks for all the help! You're the best!

Hope all is well!

[goldiegirl]

vimeo.com/25951119

Here's a current video. The bump appears to be more noticeable.

[goldenpuon]

Hi goldie. I'm very happy your fish made it! The fact that he is eating. It is a GREAT sign!

From the last video, he looks thinner than before (from not eating) but he should be ok provided he continues to eat.

Also, him eating is DEFINITELY a good sign! Way to go on the good care you have given this fish that has helped it survive.

I also noticed in the video the fish looks more aware/active and better in general. I even saw your goldfish approach the camera as if it was curious once in the video.

I can see the lump around his neck/underside where his gills are. I am unsure what the cause is but as long as it doesn't look infected and does not grow in size over time, it is fine. Your fish has gone through a lot and it is very likely parts of the fish's body were affected. I noticed the fish had some physical oddities probably as a result of age, genetics, and/or the ammonia poisoning and oxygen deprivation as I noticed before. The fish starting to eat should greatly help it recover more and also gain a bit of weight.

Also, your fish's gills look less swollen which is very good. However, is still breathing more rapidly than usual and still seems pretty weak. As I mentioned, this may be a long recovery and much of the damage may be permanent so your fish will be much more sensitive to low oxygen levels and ammonia and nitirte in the future.

I have had my own goldfish go to the top for air after feeding or in some cases where they are having swimbladder issues wher they start to drift to the bottom and they try to suck in air to balance it out. (Some of them are getting old and have poor genetics)

However, with your fish the doesn't seem to be for either reason. It may be just the fish or trying to get more oxygen to its gills because of the gill damage, but there is a chance this may point to your ammonia and/or nitrite levels starting to get a bit go up slightly. (Not a lot otherwise the fish would be in much worse shape and reacting more strongly). The fish going to the top so often concerns me though.

What are your ammonia and nitrite levels? (Both should be 0). Also, how long has this been going on with the fish getting air from the top? Did it do this at all before the poisoning? I am asking the questions regarding the fish's behavior to tell whether its from gill damage or something the fish may have previously done at times. This may be an aftereffect of the poisoning and not much to worry about, just something to keep an eye on.

Also, if the ammonia and nitrite levels are at 0 and have been, (if you haven't already), starting to do 10% water changes every 2 days would be ok or even 15% every 3. I say to continue in case the tank is not as stabilized as it seems you doing water changes which bring down ammonia levels.

Also, are you still doing the MB baths? If you are still doing these, they may help, but I would say doing them less often and starting to discontinue would be fine. Also, if you did stop them earlier, how long ago was it?

Good job on using the Replenish and Malawi Buffers too. Those should help keep your KH and GH stable and help with your fish's health.

I am very happy for you and your goldfish- that he is still alive and recovering! I am gald he survived!

Renee

[goldiegirl]

From the last video, he looks thinner than before (from not eating) but he should be ok provided he continues to eat.

He does! but right when he started eating he literally gulped down all his food, chasing any old food in the rocks, etc. I'm assuming he was starving and SO hungry.


Also, your fish's gills look less swollen which is very good. However, is still breathing more rapidly than usual and still seems pretty weak. As I mentioned, this may be a long recovery and much of the damage may be permanent so your fish will be much more sensitive to low oxygen levels and ammonia and nitirte in the future.

It's so hard because goldies are such dirty fish :/ He filthys it up so fast!

What are your ammonia and nitrite levels? (Both should be 0). Also, how long has this been going on with the fish getting air from the top? Did it do this at all before the poisoning? I am asking the questions regarding the fish's behavior to tell whether its from gill damage or something the fish may have previously done at times. This may be an aftereffect of the poisoning and not much to worry about, just something to keep an eye on.


Ammonia and nitrite were 0 last I checked. I'm not home right now but will check again once I am. I really only started noticing it once all this occurred. He never got air from the top before Maybe it does have something to do with the damage...hope not something to be too worried about!

Also, if the ammonia and nitrite levels are at 0 and have been, (if you haven't already), starting to do 10% water changes every 2 days would be ok or even 15% every 3. I say to continue in case the tank is not as stabilized as it seems you doing water changes which bring down ammonia levels.

I stopped performing daily changes on Thursday. I performed another water change on Sunday and now will again tomorrow. Maybe I should do more?

Also, are you still doing the MB baths? If you are still doing these, they may help, but I would say doing them less often and starting to discontinue would be fine. Also, if you did stop them earlier, how long ago was it?

I stopped after about a week and 2 days...I haven't been doing them all this week and the last. He seems to be eating now that I've stopped all meds. Do you think maybe the meds were affecting his appetite?

Thanks Renee!

[Carl]

I stopped after about a week and 2 days...I haven't been doing them all this week and the last. He seems to be eating now that I've stopped all meds. Do you think maybe the meds were affecting his appetite?

The medications used generally will supress appetite. Also a more stable aquarium as per water parameters (ammonia, pH, etc) will generally increase appetite

Also, your fish's gills look less swollen which is very good. However, is still breathing more rapidly than usual and still seems pretty weak. As I mentioned, this may be a long recovery and much of the damage may be permanent so your fish will be much more sensitive to low oxygen levels and ammonia and nitirte in the future.

It's so hard because goldies are such dirty fish :/ He filthys it up so fast!

As stated much of this damage is likely permanent.
Maintaining perfect water parameters will be essential in any long term recovery, if even only a partial recovery.

This includes ammonia, stable pH, KH, GH (including essential mineral cations for Redox and osmoregulation)

Carl

[goldenpuon]

"He does! but right when he started eating he literally gulped down all his food, chasing any old food in the rocks, etc. I'm assuming he was starving and SO hungry."

That is great! I assumed he was eating but only a little when you said that because that is normally how fish start eating again. Glad to hear he is going back to his old self! All my goldfish are food addicts. Him eating so much so suddenly and continuing. That is a very good sign.

Goldfish are rather dirty and have a well-known rep as dirty fish. I understand. Don't worry. He should do better as time passes. Though he will always be more sensitive than before, when he is recovered as much he can (which right now he has a ways to go), he should be able to tolerate more than he can right now.

I too have noticed my own goldfish being fairly dirty. Some of my own goldifsh growing like mad and looking well-fed, they aren't super dirty as far as waste. However, with nitrates and the filter in my 40 gallon (which has a tendency to get dirty easily no matter what it seems), they do seem to cause nitrate levels to rise very fast. (Not ammonia or nitrite of course since my tank is cycled.)

As far as cleaning, cleaning the filter every few weeks and siphoning the gravel out every 1-2 weeks or even every 3 if there isn't much buildup is all that is needed. And of course changing filter carbons monthly, and if they are not very dirty after a month , rinsing them with tank water the every month and replacing them every 2 months.

"What are your ammonia and nitrite levels? (Both should be 0). Also, how long has this been going on with the fish getting air from the top? Did it do this at all before the poisoning? I am asking the questions regarding the fish's behavior to tell whether its from gill damage or something the fish may have previously done at times. This may be an aftereffect of the poisoning and not much to worry about, just something to keep an eye on. "

That is very good that they were both 0 last time. With this fish, checking the water 2 times a week should probably be done until for a while and also because thf sih is so sensitive. After that, once a week should be enough. It is likely the damage or just sensitivity to the water. There is not anything you can do to totally reverse the damage. However, keeping good water quality and redox should help with his recovery (possibly help him heal more and faster) and overall function of his gills. It is not anything to worry about that much, give him good care and it should be alright.

Small water changes of 15% every 3 days for now should be good. After the fish has recovered more *and* the tank is stable (which it may be at this point), water changes of 25% once a week or week and a half should be fine depending on the water conditions. Still, it is really up to you at this point. Whatever works best to keep ammonia levels and nitrite levels at 0 while the fish is still recovering should be ok. The fish seems to be slowly getting better and your tank seems to be stable so at this point, stablizing the fish and water parameters is no longer any emergency. rather, maintaining them while keeping in mind that the fish is still weak at this is what to aim at IMO- whatever works the best for you and the fish and tank.

By the way, great job! You are a very devoted and caring fish owner. Through your efforts to save your fish (not only the fish's hardiness), he has survived! I also hope that all you have had to do has not been too oeverwhelming. I know from personal experience taking actions to bring a fish back from death is very time-consuming and also emotionally very hard due to the attachement to the fish.

"Also, are you still doing the MB baths? If you are still doing these, they may help, but I would say doing them less often and starting to discontinue would be fine. Also, if you did stop them earlier, how long ago was it?"

That should be fine. I was actually thinking now would be time to stop with the baths. While I doubt the MB had any or much to any affect on his appetite, perhaps minor stress of being moved to a separate area for a bath could have contributed. Other harsher or stronger meds can affect appetite of a fish. Of course, the health and condition of the fiosh and other factors influence appetite while medicating too.

You're welcome.

[goldenpuon]

Hi goldiegirl.

I have been thinking goldfish's and other ways I could be of help to you with your fish. Your fish's unusual curviness came to mind and I wondered if I had missed anything that had caused it other than how close to death it came to and ammonia poisoning/oxygen deprivation. After looking more in depth into this, I realized that since RO water has been used for this fish since you got it (please correct me if you have not used RO water long-term), your goldfish has been deprived for the majority of its life of much needed minerals and other essential components to its health such as calcium and magnesium. I know you have used products to remineralize the water (which is great that you tried to do so IMO and I commend you for). Still, as per what Carl has said about them who has more experience with Redox, aquarium products, and mineralization than I do, the products you used did not contain enough minerals and other things your fish needs.

I am sorry to say this, but I the use of RO water without adding enough for Redox and other minerals that the fish needs has very likely played a large part in the curving, perhaps even if it was not as noticable before the ammonia poisoning. I can not say 100% for sure that the curving was there before the fish almost died because I did not see what it looked like, but it probably every well have had some curving/scoliosis prior to the ammonia poisoning incident. Unfortunately, I can say for sure that since the RO water did not have enough added to it for mineralizaton, that the fish's health was negatively affected. The curving is not good- espeically since long-term it likely caused over a large span of time by the use of poorly mineralized water was very likely part of what caused it, not only the ammonia poisoning. (By the way, I still very much think the trauma from the lack of oxygen getting to the fish's gills and ammonia poisoning are factors that contributed to this. This is especially so since you stated the fish didn't look *as* curvy before that.)

That said, fish health is one of the main reasons maintaining good water quality for goldfish with proper Redox, KH over 150 and a GH over 250 is so important for the good health for all goldfish as well as your fish that is in the process of recovering now.

That is why buffers, wondershells, and other products to stabilize PH by adding calcium and aiding with reduce are so important to add to not only to RO water, but any water added to a fish tank with a low KH and GH or poor Redox. That said, it is *not* the RO water itself, but the lack of minerals in any water that has levels that are too low of things your fish needs that poses a problem. If RO water is well mineralized before its addition to the tank, it is fine to use. The same goes with other water such as my own tapwater at my house that has a decently high GH but low KH.

Other causes could be age or genetics - scoliosis showing with age earlier with poorer water quality. Also, scoliosis is an indicator of poor health or poor genetics, not necessarily a symptom of a disease nor sometimes that cane be cured once it happens. Still, my impression is the curving is mostly from long term use of poorly mineralized water and poor Redox as well as the recent trauma the goldfish went through.

To keep the curving/scoliosis from getting worse and improve the fish's health and increase life-span, good water parameters can help, but are not a guarantee to stop it if the fish is growing in a way where its spine and/or body naturally bends more as it grows or it is genetic. Also, a fish can live a long time with curving like yours has provided it is given good care and water conditions. As I stated before, scoliosis is not necessarily a sign or a disease. It is also not a sure sign of coming death. Rather it can be from improper water parameters (most likely in your case), genetics, age, and/or other factors.

My apologies rambling on so much on this. I had just realized that I had left out some very importnat details on Redox, mineralization, etc. that are very important keep at proper levels and to understand. If you have any questions, feel free to let me know.

I am pleased that your fish has made it so far despite all it can gone through. Your fish is quite hardy. Also, I hope all this information was not overwhelming to you. If you need any clarification on anything, feel free to ask.

Take care.

Renee

[goldiegirl]

Hi Renee-

I do agree that this may be the cause Unfortunately, I am unsure what to do at this point. I bought the fish when I was in the 4th grade and have had him ever since (I am now in college). At the time, I obviously knew nothing about fish and have learned a great deal over the years. He also is quite old which could obviously be adding to it. I had previously had another goldfish who also lived in RO water his whole life and he never got ill and also never appeared unhealthy in appearance. This fish, however, has always been somewhat sickly (yet VERY hardy) as he has overcome quite a lot in his 11 years.

At this point, do you think I should just be mixing the Seachem Malawi, Replenish, and RO Right into my big jug of RO water a few nights prior to performing a water change? Then change 10% for a few days or so till it gets complete?

I have added some, but have been scared to use Malawi as he has been improving and I don't want to add something that may cause him to go over the edge (especially if it upped his ph). I know this is necessary to do for his health, but with his condition I'm not sure what to do.

Could you guide me through using the Malawi or have I just stated exactly how it should be used?

I also wanted to know what food is best for goldfish, meaning which brand of flakes? I had Omega but ran out and am wondering if there is something I should be feeding him to help with his health.

Thanks for thinking of all that! I wish there was more I could do at this point

[goldiegirl]

Sorry let me clarify (not sure if this made sense):

I buy my RO water at an aquatic store in 5 gallon containers, which I store in my house. Every time I do a water change, I pour water out of that container into his main tank.

I'm afraid of adding Malawi/Victoria, etc. into the main tank because I believe it will shock him.

He is eating still, yet spends most of his time behind a plant at the bottom of the tank. I don't believe his is additionally ill, I think he feels most comfortable there as he has trouble swimming. Unless he is searching for food, he mainly spends his time sitting behind the plant.

I am keeping the airstone in for additional oxygen...good to keep?

He still jumps to get air sometimes. Not sure why this is :/