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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 6, 2008 19:22:51 GMT -5
(Please move this if I posted in the wrong spot) As most of you guys probably know, my betta breeding has not been going so well. The fry die or end up as mutants due to that the parents are poor quality petstore fish. I was thinking of putting an end to breeding my bettas and breeding/keeping another kind of fish. I would probably be selling some of my bettas and keeping the rest (my favorite ones) until they die of old age. Do you guys have an suggestions of fish that are easy to keep and farly easy to breed? I'm looking for a fish that Has an adult size of 3 inches or under Can be kept in a tank of 10 gallons or less (sorry, my mom really doesn't want a bigger atnk) Comes in several different colors Preferably can be kept in groups (doesn't have to be schooling) Comes in several colors And of course, I wouldn't be getting any until I have room or enough info/saved up money for them Thanks!  |
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Post by 8 in the Corner on Oct 6, 2008 23:36:37 GMT -5
Do you guys have an suggestions of fish that are easy to keep and farly easy to breed? I'm looking for a fish that Has an adult size of 3 inches or under Can be kept in a tank of 10 gallons or less (sorry, my mom really doesn't want a bigger atnk) Comes in several different colors Preferably can be kept in groups (doesn't have to be schooling) Comes in several colors Thanks!
The new colorful zebra danios would be perfect for a 10 gallon tank. They are called "Glofish" and come in bright yellow, red, green and orange.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GloFish
The colors are really spectacular and are permanent due to the gene splicing that is done to get them. They use dna from jellyfish and splice it into the zebra's genes.
They are kind of pricey ($6-7 each), but zebras are easy to spawn and the various colors of the glofish breed true. Give them lots of leafy, bushy plants and the right water temp, and away they will go.
As I understand it, you are not allowed to sell them because they are patented for now, but you could give them to all your friends and mail some to all your co-members at EA, right, right?
John |
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 7, 2008 14:37:19 GMT -5
Thanks 8, but what do you mean by patented? I would also have to get a fish that I am able to sell. I wouldn't want an overpopulation of them and no one to give them too if they spawned a lot.
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 7, 2008 18:41:55 GMT -5
Anyone, Murdock, Suzie, Carl? I think i must have put this thread in a spot people don't look in too often. Oh well. I know you all are busy. I'm gonna do some more fish research.
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 7, 2008 19:06:42 GMT -5
I've been doing some research since I last posted and I really like angelfish. The problem is a lot grow 6 inches or more. I'm hoping there is a pygmy version so I'd be able to keep at least 4 per 10 gallons. I am also aware that they are a bit fragile and sensitive to water quality. However, they like soft water, like mye water at home taht comes out of my tap. That's a plus, what do you guys think? So far, I'm having trouble looking up particular angelfish species. I keep on finding info about all the species on angelfish in general.
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Post by eve on Oct 7, 2008 20:14:56 GMT -5
i answered you on your other q renee
no, there are no dwarf angels
they all get that big
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Post by Carl on Oct 7, 2008 20:52:47 GMT -5
I will think more as I have more time (Tuesday just has not been good for me), however you DID get a suggestion from John/8 that was quite interesting to me!
Honestly the size tank you have is quite difficult for most fish to breed properly.
Livebearers are a good fit for this size tank, such as Platties, Mollies, Guppies.
One fish that comes to mind is the Pink Convict Cichlid which does not get real large (4 inches). I have bred many of these Cichlids in tanks as small as 10 gallon aquariums and they are very easy fish to breed and have good personalities as well.
Carl
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Post by bikeguy33 on Oct 7, 2008 21:13:18 GMT -5
convicts as i have seen can get very aggressive and you can`t stop them from breeding. they are the guppy of the cichlid world. also for sale they are worth very little 9 at least in Canada) since they do so readily breed.btw....i wasn`t meaning ANY disrespect to Carl. we have all had very very different experiences with certain fish.
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Post by eve on Oct 8, 2008 0:48:38 GMT -5
we have the same thing happening here bike
fish which are readily bread, have little value
some of them are here at my LFS
auratus
convicts
kribensis and a few others
so for that reason, i actually picked up a pair of blue rams yesterday, as the local breeder has brought in his last batch of fry this week, he needs a break from it
so i hope, i will get lucky enough to get them to breed
will also have to pick up some drift wood or peatmoss, to keep the pH at a lower level
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Post by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 12:03:25 GMT -5
convicts as i have seen can get very aggressive and you can`t stop them from breeding. they are the guppy of the cichlid world. also for sale they are worth very little 9 at least in Canada) since they do so readily breed.btw....i wasn`t meaning ANY disrespect to Carl. we have all had very very different experiences with certain fish. we have the same thing happening here bike fish which are readily bread, have little value some of them are here at my LFS auratus convicts kribensis and a few others so for that reason, i actually picked up a pair of blue rams yesterday, as the local breeder has brought in his last batch of fry this week, he needs a break from it so i hope, i will get lucky enough to get them to breed will also have to pick up some drift wood or peatmoss, to keep the pH at a lower level This is the reason I suggest the Convict as these are the guppies of the cichlid world as you stated. I was trying to think of easy to breed fish that would work reasonably well ina 10 gallon aquarium (keyword= "reasonably" as even this is not the best size tank). I was not considering the value of the fish as most of the persons I have set up with Convicts over the years were not looking at this from a monetary stand point, ONLY an easy fish to breed. More bluntly goldfish fish are best bred profitably in ponds, not aquariums and German Rams (which are among my favorite fish) are not an easy fish to breed and are best kept in more advanced aquariums with the best equipment, so that is why I would NOT suggest them for someone on a budget such as Renee. I had a client that had a 200 gallon tank with breeding pairs of German/Blue Rams (as well as several grow out tanks), however this person was highly paid Coroner with lots of money and the best of the best aquarium filters system that included micron filtration, UV Sterilization, Fluid Filters, and also used products such as Bio Lif. I am not saying that this size or all this is necessary, but I am saying that I do not want to suggest fish for breeding that can be problematic for small tanks and low operating budgets. I think we can agree that there are reasons that Convicts, Auratus, etc. are "cheap" and German Rams cost more and trying to breed fish for profit cost money in of itself. Carl |
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Post by jonv on Oct 8, 2008 12:25:52 GMT -5
I happen to think that every point made in here so far is true and accurate. I've not really been a big fan of Convicts personally, and if the overall goal is to just breed and that's it, from that stand point then the Convicts paired up are a good choice. However, you could do just as well I think with something like guppies or other livebearers, or a mouth brooder that typically breeds a very large brood.
Why I dislike Convicts however, is the sheer numbers and frequency combined. I think Convicts from this stand point make it more of a challenge then a blessing. Unless you have several tanks, you're bound to run into issues, and then in turn, this is actually where money for your fry can be the deciding influence from how I see it.
The hassles you are likely to encounter, unless you are blessed with a plethera of stores in your area that will take these fish, is going to be finding people to take them. The repeat frequency of the Convicts producing fry are going to tax all your tanks to the limit and maybe even beyond. I don't think I'd even want to consider keeping a group as once they in turn grow and become adults and spawn, you're going to end up with a geometric progression of fry in your tanks. From one pair, if adults, you're liable to max out and beyond all your tanks in less then a year's time.
If you consider the number of offspring that just one pair of adults could generate in one year, and if you can't move or sell these fish off, just from that one pair alone, you're probably going to end up with about 500 fry just from that one pair. Now take that first group off those pairs, and say 8 months down the road, you end up with males and females in some large tank, and then THEY spawn, you're going to end up jumping from say 500 fry a year to like 5,0000. I don't know what's going to happen if you can't find homes for these fish.
From that aspect, I really dislike the use of Convicts just because they continually generate fry on end and getting a store to take some of these is not going to be easy, nor would listing and selling them. This species has much exposure in the hobby about this ability so if I were someone thinking to buy Convicts, I'm not going to pay top dollar for them really simply because I can probably locate any number of people at any given time that have these and find the price I want.
If you then in turn consider the amount of work you'd have to do to care for those fry once they are up and growing, such as tank water changes and dietary needs, I think one's going to find that Convicts are not a great fish to end up keeping.
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Post by jonv on Oct 8, 2008 12:28:50 GMT -5
Actually now that I think again, (my head in a little haze this morning) since Renee has bred Betta's, I'd imagine a nice looking species of Gourami might be a good choice, such as Gold's or Blue's. The only issue I can see is if you only have just a ten gallon tank, then maybe look for a Coral/Flame Red Gourami as a choice. I've never been able to get a bubblenester breed for me, but if one already has that experience, I'd opt to stick with that.
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Post by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 14:02:20 GMT -5
I think this is a good point!
I did not run into too much problem with the extra off spring with these clients as most these extra Convicts were treated as many off the plethora of Platy, Guppy or other livebearers offspring and that is given away to friends or letting "nature run its coarse" in community aquariums.
This why Bill's comment: "they are the guppy of the cichlid world." is so true. Basically the problems with many livebearers can apply to Convicts, however I guess the common comment I got from the clients I had with Convicts is that "their kids enjoyed watching the parental rearing of the fry" which is unique to most cichlids and there in lies a plus of Convicts.
Convicts are certainly nothing special, however they are an excellent fish to introduce aquarists to the world of breeding egg layers with the added bonus of parental care ease of care and low maintenance cost.
Honestly (and I hope this is taken well)
We need to think of fish that can breed for Renee in a 10 gallon aquarium considering her restricted resources and not debate the merits and de-merits of Convicts. I think John/8 started out with a good suggestion and we need to come up with other suggestion.
*Remember, this is only a 10 gallon tank
*She is on a budget
*I agree that being able to "move" her fry is definitely a consideration (which is where the Convicts MAY be problem and where John/8 danio suggestion has merit)
Carl
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Post by jonv on Oct 8, 2008 14:13:02 GMT -5
Good point again Carl. Looking outside the box on this, MAYBE there's also another option here, just needs to be said for thought, if all you have is just 1 10 gallon tank, breeding fish outside of Betta's you shouldn't consider it. Maybe.
John's Danio option probably wouldn't tax a bio load on a 10 gallon for quite some time as they'd grow I imagine, and I think with most any cichlid too, any type, mouthbrooder or egg layer and the parents give great care, you need multiple tanks at some point, either young and grow them out, or when they grow under care and become adults. I for this reason wouldn't really consider any cichlid breeding unless there are multiple tanks open.
Now that you put that point out, if this is just a single 10 gallon tank, this is very limited I think. Not nearly as many options by far if you have larger and more then 1 tank working for you.
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Post by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 14:32:55 GMT -5
Good point again Carl. Looking outside the box on this, MAYBE there's also another option here, just needs to be said for thought, if all you have is just 1 10 gallon tank, breeding fish outside of Betta's you shouldn't consider it. Maybe. Quite right! This is the key point along with buget that I do not think I got across real well. This is really is limiting with probably no very good suggestions available. The only options may just be livebearers as pointed out there are flaws with many other possibities from dealing with the offspring of Convicts to the real costs of raising German Rams without dealing with issues caused by cutting corners due to lack of funds. My comments were based on similar requests by teachers that I set up aquariums in classrooms over the years where size, budget, and educational experience (such as observing egg laying fish breed) were all considerations. Carl |
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 8, 2008 16:00:39 GMT -5
It sounds like convicts woul probably not be a good choice from what I've just heard. Plus 4 inches and several fish in a 10 gallon or less would be just as abad, if not worse than having too many goldfish in a 10. Looking on what I will be dealing with, it looks like I will actually be stuck with a 5 1/2 gallon and a ton of 4 gallon plastic bins. I doubt my mom would allow another 10 and the one I have as a spare will be used for the goldfish that I'm putting in the 40 in case of a disease outbreak. Looking on how many bins I have, I have 2 spare 4 gallon bins right now, a 5 that will be spared after my betta fry dies/grows and is bleached, a 2 1/2 I have a male in (I will be taking him out), and another 5 I will be getting since my other one cracked while I bleached it.
Again, I know there's not much you can put in a 5 1/2 gallon but the advantage here is I have several to put my fish in so that can be used to split the fish up and avoid overcrowding. I'm thinking my only options may be tetras. I know ther are a good deal of small tetra species so that could work....
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 8, 2008 17:19:03 GMT -5
I looked up kribs and rams and found that they vare probably not what I am looking for. Kribs grow to 4.7 inches. Definietly not a good idea and rams I hear are very sensitive. If rams cost a lot each and it takes me a long time to get the hang of keeping them alive, it would not be worth it and I plus I hate it when my inexperience costs a fish its life in the first place.
Again, I thinking of tetras. I found a list of 100 some species on wikipedia but the majority didn't have any articles on them nor could I find many god resources. Do any of you guys know of a list of plenty of tetra species complete with a picture and each tetra's maximum size. Thanks. I wonder if any tetra species show any parental behavior. That would be neat.
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Post by bikeguy33 on Oct 8, 2008 17:37:48 GMT -5
they will show absolutely no parental behavior. actually each lil fry look like a small roast to them. they to the best of my knowledge don`t easily breed, but i still think cardinal tetras may be a good choice for you. easy to keep plus you can have alot with a small tank....and they are always on the move....
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 8, 2008 18:00:16 GMT -5
Thanks Bikeguy, even though I like these species i found a little more. Tell me what you guys think. I'll be getting only 1 off this list.
Serpea Tetra
Pretty Tetra
Pepper Tetra
Flame Tetra
Silvertip Tetra
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Post by 8 in the Corner on Oct 8, 2008 20:27:31 GMT -5
Thanks Bikeguy, even though I like these species i found a little more. Tell me what you guys think. I'll be getting only 1 off this list. Serpea Tetra Pretty Tetra Pepper Tetra Flame Tetra Silvertip Tetra
John |
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