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Post by eve on Oct 4, 2008 13:04:06 GMT -5
another journal for you guys  =============================== March 20, 2008 finally my hubby got rid of his turtles and i have my 29 gallon tank back ;D this will will be the outgrow tank of my cichlids once everything is in order my 10 gallon will function as a hospital tank and for my holding females until they spit for right now i set it up with the HOB filter it originally came with, which was the whole time on my 55 gallon tank, some nice small gravel, 1 bag marine coral gravel also small, one decoration and my hubby surprised me with a bunch of plants today the 30 gallon submersible filter which was in this tank for the turtles went into my 55 gallon cichlid tank the water was taken as follows: 70% of it from my 55 gallon tank 10% from my 10 gallon fry tank and the rest was filled up with tapwater will test for parameters once i have a heater in it things i still have to get 1 heater 1 more 20 gallon submersible filter then wait 1-2 days and my fry will be transferred into their new home until they go to the store here is a pic of the tank for right now, but it's still cloudy of course  ============================= march 24, 2008 all the parameters are fine, and my fry love the tank, here are some updated pics tank is all clear  here you can see the size difference in the fry  ====================================== april 2, 2008 some updated comparison pics again    ============================== April 5, 2008 some more pics after redecorating and getting a bunch more plants and getting a 10.000 K light strip     ================================= April 6, 2008 a video of them when feeding time comes around ignore the background noises   ========================== April 27, 2008 i don't know, but my camera skills suck right now the auratus are now about 7 weeks old the yellow labs are now a little bit more then 2 months old they're growing very nicely, and are very active as well        ==================================== September 2, 2008  =============================== I still have the auratus fry, so will try to take some pics either today or tomorrow, depending on when i will bring them to my LFS ;D |
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Post by eve on Oct 4, 2008 15:57:04 GMT -5
these will be my final pics of my auratus fry, as i will be bringing them to my LFS, either today or tomorrow :-\  but it was an awesome experience watching them grow, something i really wouldn't have liked to miss ;D out of 17 fry, there is only 1 single male      comparison of male top/female bottom you can see how the colors have changed  female closeup   male closeup  |
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Post by 8 in the Corner on Oct 4, 2008 22:21:29 GMT -5
Eve,
You may think you have only one male, but there are probably quite a few in the group. It is common for sub-dominant males to adopt the colors of the female of the species when the dominant male is chasing everyone and shows willingness to beat the crap out of anyone who looks remotely like another male.
If you would remove the dominant male to another tank, another male would probably color up and assume the vacated position.
John
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Post by eve on Oct 4, 2008 22:24:34 GMT -5
Eve,
You may think you have only one male, but there are probably quite a few in the group. It is common for sub-dominant males to adopt the colors of the female of the species when the dominant male is chasing everyone and shows willingness to beat the crap out of anyone who looks remotely like another male.
If you would remove the dominant male to another tank, another male would probably color up and assume the vacated position.
John john thanks, i completely forgot about this phenomen  i guess he will be the first one removed then when i'm taking them out |
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Post by jonv on Oct 5, 2008 1:26:35 GMT -5
Eve,
You may think you have only one male, but there are probably quite a few in the group. It is common for sub-dominant males to adopt the colors of the female of the species when the dominant male is chasing everyone and shows willingness to beat the crap out of anyone who looks remotely like another male.
If you would remove the dominant male to another tank, another male would probably color up and assume the vacated position.
John John, I tried this out actually the last couple weeks, but not in the exact order like you said. I suspect I have a subdominant Scianochromis Ahli with a nicely colored up dominant one. I took the one I suspect to also be male but sub dominant and put him over in 100 for about 17 days figuring, if this is a male, the colors should heighten up and show. I didn't see any level of color change, and there are only juvenile Mbuna in the tank there. How long do you think it would take to see a sub dominant male show colors if he became the only male of it's species in a tank? I'll try to get you some shots of it, but based on the mouth and overall body size, I have a hard time thinking this is really a female, but I don't have as much experience as you. I'd like you to try to look at the two when I post them and let me know what you think. Wouldn't taking a sub dominant and letting it be alone do the trick too? I'd also note, that I've seen in the Ps. Flavus group, that the subdominant male will not only do like what you said above, but he'll even do some small tail chasing and the dominant male shimmy to initiate spawning. I don't know if I'd say it's a case of "gay" fish as much as I'd think, it's "do whatever you can to stay alive LOL" Never lasts long of course. Maybe one pass over, the dominant one realizes it's another male. Is that odd or unusual? |
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Post by 8 in the Corner on Oct 5, 2008 12:48:19 GMT -5
John, I tried this out actually the last couple weeks, but not in the exact order like you said. I took the one I suspect to also be male but sub dominant and put him over in 100 for about 17 days figuring, if this is a male, the colors should heighten up and show. I didn't see any level of color change, and there are only juvenile Mbuna in the tank there. How long do you think it would take to see a sub dominant male show colors if he became the only male of it's species in a tank? I'll try to get you some shots of it, but based on the mouth and overall body size, I have a hard time thinking this is really a female, but I don't have as much experience as you. I'd like you to try to look at the two when I post them and let me know what you think. Wouldn't taking a sub dominant and letting it be alone do the trick too?
I don't know if removing a suspected male to another tank without any of his species will make him color up. He may need the stimulus of females and the lack of a dominant male to trigger the sexual maturation and coloring.
Sorry, I can't give you a definitive answer on that one. My suspicion is that they need females around to get them interested enough to color up. In the wild, a fish with bright colors would stand out enough to attract females AND predators, so I don't think that a single fish of a species would color up all alone unless there were occasional glimpses of females.
I do know that wholesalers will actually add hormones to their tanks to color up the fish so they will sell better at the retailers' locations.
John |
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Post by eve on Oct 5, 2008 13:03:08 GMT -5
jon,
dont' know if you remember, but i had 3 kenyi's
2 of them where males, but i didnt' find out, until i removed the dominant male
that way the subdominant colored up in a matter of only 10-20 minutes
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Post by jonv on Oct 5, 2008 16:14:14 GMT -5
Well, both input then really would support I think take a known male out and see if someone else steps up. I don't dispute that logic at all, and makes total sense. I'll have to give that a shot and see.
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 5, 2008 18:19:17 GMT -5
John, I do know that wholesalers will actually add hormones to their tanks to color up the fish so they will sell better at the retailers' locations. John [/b][/color][/quote] Do big time fish breeders add hormones like this to other kinds of fish that they sell at petstores like bettas and guppies? Also, do they add growth hormone to their water? If they do just to make their fish look better or make up for poor water conditions, I think that is wrong. |
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Post by 8 in the Corner on Oct 5, 2008 22:43:13 GMT -5
The hormones used are just to get the fish to assume mature colors. I have seen 2" fish with adult (5") coloration come in to the store. If they are not sold in a couple weeks, they start losing the adult colors.
I don't think they use growth hormones on guppies or any other fish for that matter (but I am not in the wholesale breeding business), I believe guppies are just fed lots of live food and they grow on their own.
Most breeders have a drip system in their grow-out tanks that gives the fry constant fresh water. Everything I have heard or read says that the best thing for quick growth of fry and good health (of any fish) is frequent partial water changes.
A friend of mine is a discus breeder here in NEO and he does a minimum of 50% water changes on his fry tanks every day.
John
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Post by Carl on Oct 6, 2008 10:55:15 GMT -5
The hormones used are just to get the fish to assume mature colors. I have seen 2" fish with adult (5") coloration come in to the store. If they are not sold in a couple weeks, they start losing the adult colors.
I don't think they use growth hormones on guppies or any other fish for that matter (but I am not in the wholesale breeding business), I believe guppies are just fed lots of live food and they grow on their own.
Most breeders have a drip system in their grow-out tanks that gives the fry constant fresh water. Everything I have heard or read says that the best thing for quick growth of fry and good health (of any fish) is frequent partial water changes.
A friend of mine is a discus breeder here in NEO and he does a minimum of 50% water changes on his fry tanks every day.
John A friend (& business partner) of mine in LA uses similar procedures with his Discus; A drip system in bare tanks with Sponge filters and internal filters with water enhancing products such as Bio Lif (this is how I found out about Bio Lif initially). Carl |
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 6, 2008 16:18:52 GMT -5
I have heard of drip systems but i have never really undertstood how to make them or really what they are. I would love to make some for my giuppies and betta fry. I've sure they would love it and grow a bit faster. Any suggestions? Thanks.
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Post by Carl on Oct 6, 2008 19:29:19 GMT -5
A drip system is a tank or system with over flow similar to many wet-dry or other types of central systems where as the water over flows at a VERY slow rate as new water is CONSTANTLY added to the system.
Generally temperature is not a problem if the water is added slow enough.
Chlorine or Chloramines can still be a problem in aquariums (I have used this system MANY time in ponds I contructed and where chlorine was not a problem do to the vastness of the pond).
A common way around this is filling a large drum where Sodium thiosulfate or similar is added in a calibrated drip of its own and then a pump delivers this water at a calibrated rate to all the aquariums in the system. These drums generally had carbon as well as internal circulation
For a smaller system a Wonder Shell or similar product that can remove chlorine as added can be used.
Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 7, 2008 14:41:33 GMT -5
Could you explain that in a littl more detail? I'm really sorry but I'm totally lost on this statement. "A common way around this is filling a large drum where Sodium thiosulfate or similar is added in a calibrated drip of its own and then a pump delivers this water at a calibrated rate to all the aquariums in the system. These drums generally had carbon as well as internal circulation."
Also, how would I obtain the kind of"drum" you are describing and fill it with Sodium thiosulfate. I have no idea how to make a drip system still. Sorry that I'm not understanding right...
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