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Post by polaris96 on May 2, 2010 13:48:40 GMT -5
threads I've seen on the internet (and, of course the name pogostemon) suggest stellatus and helferi are the same genus. Physically, though, the stellatus almost resembles a bamboo, but with a weaker stalk. At least it looks that way to me. I've never seen a helferi.
Anyway, the replanted tops seem to be doing well, if a plant's health can be judged on just 2 days after replanting. I've got my fingers and toes crossed.
How much iron supplement do you add for red ludwigia? I have both red creeping ludwigia and a recently acquired ... ternthera? (that's what the handwritten sign at aquarium store said, but I can't seem to find a reference on the web. green and stalky with sword like leaves that have brilliant mauve/purple undersides)
I really don't want to keep condensing the minerals in my tank water but if iron's needed, maybe I can cut back the per unit dosage (0.1mL daily instead of 1mL weeekly)
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Post by Carl on May 2, 2010 16:03:30 GMT -5
How much iron supplement do you add for red ludwigia? I have both red creeping ludwigia and a recently acquired ... ternthera? (that's what the handwritten sign at aquarium store said, but I can't seem to find a reference on the web. green and stalky with sword like leaves that have brilliant mauve/purple undersides) I have to first admit I have never been scientific in adding Iron Supplements, I simply followed the instructions on the package and added as I saw a need based on visual plant healthy. This is 5 mL per 50 gallons for the SeaChem Iron Supplement (Flourish Iron). SeaChem recommends .10 mg/L (they make an Iron Test Kit, that admittedly I have not used, but friends in the business have and give it a thumbs up). Sorry if my answer is not too helpful in a scientific way, but I do not want to pretend I know the answers when I have used Iron only in visually "as needed" capacity, not n a scientific way.
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Post by polaris96 on May 2, 2010 17:26:04 GMT -5
yeah, I came up with a 1mL dosage from the Seachem bottle, as well (1mL/10gal). Interestingly, though, they don't recommend a schedule. I picked weekly since I do "big" chemistry and change water on Sunday.
I cut the dose to ~0.6mL today and got the slightest blush for about an hour with crystal clarity following. I think I'll keep that regiment - maybe 0.6mL wednesday / sunday as long as the ludwigia stays red.
Now, I'm wondering if the new filter is more responsible than the decreased dosage. I'm pushing through about 6" of compacted mason sand, which gives a definite 5micron exclusion. I'm actually pretty sure I can hit 2 micron exclusion over several full cycles, but I wouldn't swear to it without real analyis.
Either way, it works now. I'll post again when I know more about the iron depletion / iron test situation.
For now, I'd defintely recommend owners of small aquaria with hard water spread out the 1mL recommended dosage over several days' dosing.
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Post by Carl on May 3, 2010 9:07:20 GMT -5
I do not know the exact elements contained in Mason Sand, however this may be the cause of the Iron precipitation of your Iron supplement. I have used Iron Supplements with quite high GH (over 300 ppm) without this type of precipitation.
As for a schedule for your Iron as per SeaChem Flourish Iron; from reading their literature, the reason a schedule is not provided unlike some other products such as Flourish Excel is that they would prefer you test prior to use.
Carl
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Post by polaris96 on May 3, 2010 10:01:15 GMT -5
Makes sense for Seachaem to prefer we arrive at our own dosing schedule. I'm adding about 0.2mL daily and the water clarity is fine, now.
So far as mason sand goes, it's just silica sand but finer than utility sand or play sand, and more tightly regulated by testing (for fineness). It definitely didn't cause the problem. Filter was cycled on clear water for 7 days before attaching it to the tank ( a must for any sand filter. You never get the sand clean enough in an exterior wash.)
I had the cloudiness issue long before I added the filter.
It may have been the cure - the reduced Fe dosage still causes some blushing but it fades quickly. So, I'm wondering: is it adhering to the sand or is redissolving as the plants assimilate the iron?
I doubt there's any way to find out for sure. For my part, I'm satisfied with clear water and not concerned about the mechanism.
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Post by Carl on May 3, 2010 16:11:16 GMT -5
My apologies, after re-reading your post I see you added this filter AFTER the problem was already present. I also assumed (incorrectly) that there might be cement or similar present in this, as silica would definitely not cause this reaction, being quite inert. My guess is the lower dose is being assimilated quicker and your actual iron levels are higher than you are testing, as I so not see how silica can remove the iron precipitates.. Of coarse instead of "assuming" and making anecdotal assumptions on my part, if you have a way to make a controlled test, this would be more conclusive. One point I might add and that is the tests I have conducted with the use of Buffers in Marine Tanks such as SeaChem Marine Buffer. In these tests I noted that when the alkali reserve was high (where it should be @ 150- 200 ppm, or 9-11dKH), the addition of more buffers would result in a cloud. Whether this might be a similar issue with the iron, I do not know for sure, but it is certainly something to think about IMHO. Carl
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Post by polaris96 on May 4, 2010 8:52:45 GMT -5
I think you're on the money with your precipitation idea. It's an inference on my part, but if explains the situation well and it fits the basic rules of chemistry.
Any solvent, in this case pure water, has a finite capacity carry dissolved solids. I KNOW I OD'ed on GH salts (salt in its chemical term as any ionic compound, not meaning reef salt or table salt). Because of this, I'm reasonably sure the water in the tank is saturated and not capable of holding more solids.
A good reinforcement of this inference is the presence of a nasty white salt ring around the waterlines of my aquarium glass, heater, tubing, etc. Any ideas on cleaning that? I scrub it with used tank water, but I'm probably just forcing most of it back into the tank water column. For the moment, I'm leaving it be until my weekly 20% water changes slowly eat it up.
So Fe extract, whether in liquid or solid form, would absolutely overdope a fully saturated mixture and something would have to give. The least stable salt would precipitate. I haven't run the numbers but I'm betting on either a Magnesium or Calcium salt, for the culprit.
I just wonder if the plants are eating the iron or the filter,s catching the metal salts.
I'm thinking of possible experiments, but the truth is I don't want to agitate the fish, so I'll need to create a control tank. this will take
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Post by Carl on May 4, 2010 9:08:04 GMT -5
I generally have cleaned off the calcium and other deposits for both FW and SW aquariums during my weekly services using a straight utility razor (for glass aquariums) or a rigid plastic scraper for acrylic aquariums. I dip the tool in a cup of water, but some deposits do fall back into the aquarium (where it does no harm from my experience)
Carl
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Post by polaris96 on May 9, 2010 8:37:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the tip. It worked gr8.
I just added a quantity of Azoo plant grower bed (bought it from you, actually). I will let the water stabilize for a day and then titrate for Fe again. Hopefully, this will put the low Fe issue to rest once and for all.
The mineral blush is completely gone. I think it's equal parts of lower dosage and water polishing filter that cured it.
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Post by Carl on May 9, 2010 10:16:08 GMT -5
This is good to know for the future to pass on to others as well. BTW, thanks for the purchase Carl
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Post by babygeige on May 12, 2010 17:30:39 GMT -5
This is great info. I've been thinking about trying some iron supplement in my 30 gallon for the ludwigia. I will definitely start with a lower dosage when I do.
Thanks!
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