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Post by goldenpuon on Dec 30, 2009 17:38:36 GMT -5
I got the 5 black phantom tetras and 5 serpae tetras today, a few hours ago I put them in.
When I first added them, they all hid behind the plastic plants but have come out now. None seem too skittish and are showing off their colors beautifully.
There are 2 serpaes (smaller ones) that prefer to stay behind the plants (although they do not seem jumpy) and the 2 smaller female black phantoms are laid back as well.
The serpaes have been nipping which has concerned me though none seem too stressed. My larger and bolder female black phantom actually nipped at a serpae (which pleases me considering the serpae are nipping more than I'd like.) She is also the brightest in color of all the black phantoms in the tank. One of my 2 black phantom tetras started displaying and seemed to be having a territorial dispute with a serpae tetra.
I see noticable small tears in my fish's fins. Some probably from rough handling, some from deciding hierachy. Being fond of fish that aren't aggressive, I will add more plants in tomorrow if their aggression hasn't died down.
The tetras all seem to be schooling pretty loosely and not necessarily with their own species which surprises me.
Their tank was set up 2 days ago and I used an old hydro sponge from my 40 gallon goldfish tank to jump-start the tank. I am keeping a very close eye on my levels and any signs of stress. All of the equipment (other than the 10 gallon itself) came from other tanks that were in storage. All of it has been sterilized (not with bleach necessarily) and has been sitting around for at least a few months dry. So I'm pretty sure there will be no disease outbreaks but I'm keeping a lookout.
I'll be you posted. Oh, and I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow. I want to let the fish be for today since I just got them.
Renee
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Post by goldenpuon on Dec 30, 2009 19:20:20 GMT -5
I know I already posted today but I am fascinated by these fish.
Now the species are more tightly schooling and more with their own kind.
The black phantoms have become much more active. As a group of 5, they are pacing alongside the back of the tank. The school of serpaes pretty much likes to stay near the filter and nip occasionally amongst themselves. However, when the school of black phantoms comes by, a few serpaes often follow. Sometimes a lone black phantom gets caught in the group of serpaes and gets a nip or two though it will sometimes nip back.
Looking at the tank though across the room, the serpaes seem much more active.
I forgot to buy a thermometer for the fish today which was really dumb. However I have a reliable heater in there set to 75 F and the water and glass feels like that is the case. So a thermometer is now on my buy list.
On another note, I was shocked at how much the fish cost. The fish at the specialty store looked much better than the Petsmart serpaes and black phantoms that were mixed in. But just 5 of each totaled $28.20. That is a lot compared to what I paid for female guppies when I got them and also the 12 cent goldfish I rescued that brought me as much joy as any price fish would. Aah well, I'm rambling. I guess quality fish come with a big price tag. lol
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Post by murdock6701 on Dec 30, 2009 22:08:00 GMT -5
good luck!
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Post by goldenpuon on Dec 30, 2009 23:03:19 GMT -5
Thanks. This is my first time with tetras (besides when I was 10 years old and I bought 3 neons that died due to no heater. lol) I knew nothing about fish at that time and it was before I really got into them.
Have you ever kept tetras?
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Post by babygeige on Dec 31, 2009 11:16:40 GMT -5
Glad they are doing well! I look forward to pictures.
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Post by goldenpuon on Dec 31, 2009 14:16:51 GMT -5
Thanks although the aggression has not died down.
I'm not sure if giving them several small feedings a day is riling them up or that I have the bedroom light on a lot when I view them. Either way the aggression levels aren't good.
This morning a serpae tetra, among the 2 brightest in the tank claimed the center top area of the tank as his and ONLY his (assuming it is a male.) He stopped schooling and just kept picking on the others. I added 2 hiding places and 2 plants (or it may have been 4 plants I forgot) and moved stuff around mildly. Then they all started chasing/nipping apart from a few who managed to stay out of it for the most part.
So right now, ALL of the fish have tears in their fins (particularly the ones who seem to like to fight) from fighting. This doesn't seem normal and they have not been schooling much either. Though fortunately, since I've spent hours observing them and trying to tame them, they aren't afraid of me looking at them pretty close unless I open the lid. Am hoping they will calm down.
Sorry but I again can't do pictures. These fish have already put each other through enough. I don't want to test their trust by chasing them around with a camera trying to get pictures. The tank is also so densely planted I can't see more than 4 fish out of the 10 at a time. So it'll have to wait.
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Post by eve on Dec 31, 2009 14:42:49 GMT -5
Renee,
Congrats first of all on getting into tetras, i think they're wonderful fish to keep.
You gotta relax, just let them be. They will calm down and leave each other alone. Make sure you have conditioner in your water.
Turn off the light for a whole day and only leave it on for about 8 hours at any given time during the day.
I have kept quite a few tetras and still keep, i have never had any problems with nipping. Also with serpae tetras it's almost impossible to even sex them unless they're fully grown and even then it's a challenge.
Serpae's are actually one of my favorite tetras.
Like i said, just let them be, make sure you feed them a bit more in the first few days as they might be starved.
Also do a 25% waterchange after 3-5 days of introducing them to the tank. Also check your nitrAtes and Nitrites if you do have a test kit. It actually sounds that they could be stressed, since if i recall it correctly this is a pretty new setup. So keep an eye on the parameters.
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Post by goldenpuon on Dec 31, 2009 17:24:42 GMT -5
Thanks very much for the advice. I added a few more floating plants (although I don't think it did much).
I don't actually have an aquarium light I intended for these guys (because I hear they like dimmer lighting.) But by light, I mean light in my bedroom. I do have a spare T-2 light on my though if needed.
I'll leave them alone for now. Tomorrow will be the day with no light since they had it on a lot today (my bedroom light that is, it is a dim room.)
I did try a few things do tone down the aggression. Besides adding the plants, I put a mirror in the back of the tank where they like to hang out. I'm hoping if they see more fish than there actually are by looking at the mirror, they will feel more secure. And if they decide to nip at a fish in the mirror, it won't do any damage.
The serpaes are aiming directly for the other fish's fins when they nip and each seem to want their own little section of the aquarium. Even the black phantoms are nipping at each other somewhat (though they are labeled as peaceful.)
I just gave them a bigger feeding. Hopefully that will help (as you mentioned that they could be hungry from the pet store.)
Anyway, all the things I added/did were before I read your post. Now, that I have, I will just watch and let the fish be.
Thank you very much for the advice. I really appreciate it.
Renee
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Post by goldenpuon on Dec 31, 2009 18:47:48 GMT -5
Eve, have you ever had any problems with serpae tetras nipping?
I was reading up on serpae tetra care and came across horror stories with them nipping other fish to death. I am mostly concerned for the black phantoms, not the serpaes themselves who haven't had their fins damaged as much.
The black phantom tetras fins have been nipped as short as the serpae tetras fins and I can no longer tell the males from the females based on fin length. I believe they are still at it even though the light is off. The hall light is on and my room is dark but I still see the outlines of fish chasing each other. I'm very worried that the black phantom will die of stress.
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Post by murdock6701 on Dec 31, 2009 18:51:15 GMT -5
good sound advice Eve! I also have kept tetras, in fact, I have a few now - things will settle down - print what Eve wrote in your mind - everything will be fine! mine have always been mid range in the tank - sounds like the one at the top is a food hog and wants to set up dominance - it will pass.....
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Post by corycatwoman on Dec 31, 2009 20:37:10 GMT -5
ya. fish really do cost a pretty penny specially if you dont do your homework first. be glad your in the tetra / community fish area of the hobby. when you get to the larger species and more aggressive ones the price tag goes up even more and with there behaviors and size so due the losses and replacement. but i definately feel you on the price thing. and guppies in my opinion should be free just because there so annoying to try to stop them from breeding.
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Post by goldenpuon on Dec 31, 2009 23:25:35 GMT -5
Thanks for the help everyone.
Corycatwoman, I did research the both fish species thoroughly. But I guess since I saw they were community fish, I didn't think the aggression would be all that bad. It didn't sink in until tonight how aggressive they are. I had read serpae tetras are nippy but after keeping female bettas together for a couple years, I had thought I could handle it. But until tonight, I hadn't read exactly what they were capable of. After reading from other people such as when a school of serpaes stressed and even killed fish by nipping, I became gravely concerned about what was going on in my tank. So I apologize about this.
After some thought, I have decided to take the fish back. As the owner of these fish, it is my responsibility to do what I feel is right. I don't feel I can provide an adequent home for these fish. I would feel totally responsible if I a fish were to die from the stress of this. Furthermore, it has my mind racing and I am in a state of constant worry about the aggression levels. To me, it is not worth the risk. All of fish, serpae tetras included, feel like my family. I feel like the serpae tetras could find a much better home with someone with more experience in this area. and that I am not ready to take something on like this. I have never kept a mixed species community tank before and it seems I'd be much better with peaceful mixed species community tank.
But for now I want to keep things simple and just stick with the black phantom tetras.
Eve, I am not disregarding your advice. It is very good. I have thought things out and just feel like this is the best choice for the fish and for myself. So please don't take this personally. I know you have more experience with this than me. I just don't want to risk losing a fish as it feels to be a lot like it would to most people losing a cat or dog.
Thank you for understanding.
Sincerely, Renee
On a different note, I also tested my water. Numbers seem fairly good other than the water is a bit too hard.
Nitrate: 0 Nitrite: 0 PH: about 7.0 GH: 180
I added a little extra Prime because the tank is cycling as well.
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Post by bikeguy33 on Jan 1, 2010 0:32:40 GMT -5
a little aggression is healthy in a tank. keeps them all active and well excercised....plus it is entertaining. all the advice is good and the aggression will subside, but until then, enjoy the activity. btw....congrats on the new additions.
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Post by eve on Jan 1, 2010 14:35:45 GMT -5
Renee,
I'm way past of taking anything personally.
They're your fish and you need to know what your'e able to do and what not.
If i may throw something else out there.
Take one species back and get more of the other one.
Also please take the mirror away, a mirror is never a good idea.
As for lighting it's fine that you don't have any, i'm just used to the 10 gallon tanks with the hood which have lights, which was an assumption of mine.
Nipping should only occur if they're really stressed, or if you have more males then females which shouldn't really matter with tetras though.
Anyway, whatever you do, they're your fish hun.
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 1, 2010 18:19:47 GMT -5
Thanks for understanding everyone. And I'm glad you understood whe I was coming from Eve. This was a very hard choice to make and I was extremely worried even after they were seperated which I did last night.
As of today, I am happy to say all the are fish are doing well. Aggression has died down both among the serpaes and black phantoms. I would have returned the serpae tetras today but the store I got them from was not open because of New Years.
I also took the mirror away. I am going with the black phantoms because they are more peaceful. I am returning the serpaes and I want to get 4 black phantom tetras as a replacement. That would make 9 black phantom tetras total in the aquarium. Would they all be permanently housed comfortably in a 10 gallon or should I keep less? I feel like 10 total black phantom tetras in that size aquarium is too much considering they reach a maximum size of 1 1/2 inches and some are already an inch basically now. However, I am very good on maintance and if anything I'd say my tanks are too clean. What do you think?
Thanks again everyone for the help and suggestions. You have helped me a lot.
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Post by eve on Jan 1, 2010 21:55:04 GMT -5
No worries, we have all been there and still get there especially with new species which we have never kept. At least for me that's true.
Even with 10 you would be fine as it would be the only species.
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 1, 2010 22:17:46 GMT -5
I guess I'll go for a total of 10 then. At least if one dies, (though I REALLY hope not), I won't have to get more to have a good sized school.
Thanks again Eve.
I took pictures of the serpae tetras earlier tonight by the way and got a short video of them with my camera. It's probably pretty poor quality (as known for my camera). I'll get them up tomorrow if I can.
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Post by eve on Jan 2, 2010 14:11:45 GMT -5
You're quite welcome. Best of luck
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 2, 2010 17:43:24 GMT -5
I returned the 5 serpae tetras and replaced them with 5 black phantom tetras. They seemed to be eating earlier today but I noticed uneaten food from the last feeding on the bottom of their tank. I made a mistake giving them a feeding like this right after I got them.
If they haven't eaten the food by tomorrow, I'll have to siphon out the tank to remove the food. Otherwise, it will grow mold on it and give off ammonia. I tried moving around the plants in the tank a bit to see if they would eat it if it started moving in the water. I'm not sure if it worked. I'm keeping the light off for now until I clean the guppy tank which is in the same room.
The fish seem to be doing pretty well aside from their stress levels with the big event of me adding new fish today.
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Post by fishfever on Jan 3, 2010 9:36:11 GMT -5
I have found that tetras (all species) very rarely eat off the bottom (like cats or livebearers for example). Very occasionally I'll see a female lamp eye try to pick a pellet off the bottom if she misses it on the way down but never for flakes. I also have had some B.A. female tetras do the same with pellets/cracker chunks but nothing else.
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