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CO2
Jun 12, 2009 15:40:36 GMT -5
Post by babygeige on Jun 12, 2009 15:40:36 GMT -5
I am not very happy with the way my plants are growing, so I am thinking about taking the CO2 plunge.
I read Carl's article about CO2 and even though he doesn't recommend it, I may just try the DIY CO2 method with yeast and a pop bottle, just to see if CO2 will make the kind of difference I'm hoping for. If that works I may consider upgrading to a store-bought system. I think that will be the most cost effective thing to do at first.
I was just curious if anyone else here uses CO2 and if so, what method do you use?
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CO2
Jun 12, 2009 18:15:14 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Jun 12, 2009 18:15:14 GMT -5
I am not very happy with the way my plants are growing, so I am thinking about taking the CO2 plunge. I read Carl's article about CO2 and even though he doesn't recommend it, I may just try the DIY CO2 method with yeast and a pop bottle, just to see if CO2 will make the kind of difference I'm hoping for. If that works I may consider upgrading to a store-bought system. I think that will be the most cost effective thing to do at first. I was just curious if anyone else here uses CO2 and if so, what method do you use? Actually I do not recommend against CO2, I use it myself. I just point out that sometimes there are alternatives such as Flourish Excel. As well with more CO2, more light is needed as well. I am using the basic Sanders CO2 generator which is a good basic unit. The yeast and pop bottle can work, but I have found this more messy with so-so results. The Pressurized methods with regulators and is the best method, but much more expensive (there is a link to a site on my Plant article for such a unit (I do not sell them, but I highly recommend the site that does, I do however sell the more basic Sanders unit for $30) Freshwater Aquarium Plants; CO2Carl
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CO2
Jun 12, 2009 20:49:52 GMT -5
Post by babygeige on Jun 12, 2009 20:49:52 GMT -5
I meant that in your article you weren't a big fan of the DIY pop bottle thing, I wasn't meaning to imply that you didn't like CO2.
I was just thinking I'd try out the pop bottle way as an experiment and if it went well, I could upgrade to the Sanders or something similar. I don't think I want to get into the whole pressurized thing, although it does sound nice. It seems like the people who use that hardly have to do any maintenance. Maybe if I win the lottery...
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CO2
Jun 13, 2009 11:33:00 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Jun 13, 2009 11:33:00 GMT -5
OOOhh, sorry I was speed reading everything yesterday due to work overload, so my apologies for missing that. I am always curious how this works for you, as you have always seemed to have a green thumb when it comes to aquatic plants. Carl
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CO2
Jul 12, 2009 16:14:27 GMT -5
Post by babygeige on Jul 12, 2009 16:14:27 GMT -5
I was all ready to set up my 2 liter pop bottle CO2 thingy this afternoon, but after church I popped into a nearby Petland to see if they had any ceramic airstones since I read that they diffuse CO2 much better than regular ones. I wasn't expecting much since Petland is kind of lame for fish stuff, but it was right there, so whatever.
Apparently they are going to stop selling all fish stuff, at least at this location, because all of their supplies were 50% off. They had those Hagen CO2 canister things, so I got one since it was only 15 bucks.
I got it home and was looking at the stuff in the box and noticed that the free bottle of fertilizer that's included expired in 2005!! So did the 3 packets of "activator" and "stabilizer." But fortunately, they're just yeast and baking soda, so I just measured how much was in the packets and also did a little research online as to what people use with these things.
I'm going to begin a thread in the blog section to keep track of how things go and then everyone can follow along with me.
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CO2
Jul 12, 2009 16:17:10 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Jul 12, 2009 16:17:10 GMT -5
Good luck Stephanie!
As to the dates, likely the packets of yeast and baking soda are just less effective, not useless, so at $15 you still got a good deal.
Carl
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CO2
Jul 13, 2009 13:18:45 GMT -5
Post by babygeige on Jul 13, 2009 13:18:45 GMT -5
I used the baking soda that came with the kit, but I was nervous about using the yeast (funky bacteria-wise), so I just tossed it. I had yeast in the kitchen, so it wasn't a big deal. I was still happy that I got it for only 15 bucks. I know that these things are only intended for up to 20 gallons, but I've read where others have had success with them on 55 gals. So we'll see. If it's not enough CO2, I can always add the pop bottle later down the road.
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CO2
Oct 4, 2014 16:35:35 GMT -5
Post by hotsauce on Oct 4, 2014 16:35:35 GMT -5
I have been keeping fish for many years but only recently started dabbling with CO2. I have always tried to keep my tanks planted but without too much success. The plants seem to last only a few months and then begin dieing off. So I recently invested in a fluval injection system with a diffuser. Now the first issue to overcome is to figure out how much CO2 to add. I read the very excellent article on Aquarium Plant Care for freshwater by Carl. Near the middle of that article is a chart of PH versus KH to approximate the CO2. However the KH scale runs from 1-12 while my API dip strips present KH results on a scale of 0-240. What am I missing here? It would seem that KHis not always the same??
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Post by Carl on Oct 4, 2014 18:32:05 GMT -5
Welcome to EA! The confusion is that the Test Strips are in ppm while the chart is in dKH (which stands for Deutsche Karbonate Hardness as German is considered the language of science). An easy conversion is to divide the ppm by 17.9 to get dKH or multiply dKH to get ppm. for example, if the ppm is 200; divide this by 17.9 and you get 11.17 or rounded to 11 dKH and this can then be used on the chart. As a side note, often failure with plants is not an issue of CO2, rather ferts, lack of bio available oxygen and most of all; lighting. Carl
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CO2
Oct 6, 2014 17:48:44 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 6, 2014 17:48:44 GMT -5
I have been keeping fish for many years but only recently started dabbling with CO2. I have always tried to keep my tanks planted but without too much success. The plants seem to last only a few months and then begin dieing off. So I recently invested in a fluval injection system with a diffuser. Now the first issue to overcome is to figure out how much CO2 to add. I read the very excellent article on Aquarium Plant Care for freshwater by Carl. Near the middle of that article is a chart of PH versus KH to approximate the CO2. However the KH scale runs from 1-12 while my API dip strips present KH results on a scale of 0-240. What am I missing here? It would seem that KHis not always the same?? I'm keeping a successful planted tank with just SeaChem Excel (liquid Carbon), not a lot of water tension breaking, ferts, and good lighting. Haven't had the need for injectable CO2. oh, and welcome! Good to have you here!
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CO2
Oct 7, 2014 13:03:22 GMT -5
Carl likes this
Post by hotsauce on Oct 7, 2014 13:03:22 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and the quick responses. Over the past several days I have been experimenting with a new lighting addition and my CO2 injection. When I added the T2 HO I purchased from American Aquarium it was on a day when I had the CO2 set fairly high. After about two hours I started to see a small stream of tiny bubbles rising from the cut surfaces where I had recently pruned several Anubias. How Exciting! this is the first obvious sign I have ever seen in my tank of active photosynthesis. Over the past few days I experimented further and determined that, for my particular situation, in order to get overt signs of active photosynthesis I need both the CO2 and the higher light intensity. If I turn off either then all signs of photosynthesis goes away. BTW: because of my external power canister filtration I have avoided liquid ferts and instead use Seachem Flourish Tabs.
I still dont see pearling on most of my plants and am now assuming that my lighting must still be marginal. I am therefore considering adding the Hagen Fluval LED lighting system. Conversely, I could also just add another HO T2 lamp and fixture for a lot less money. Wondering if any readers have any advice over these two choices?
But my big question for the day has to do with the PH changes associated with CO2 injection. When I made a 5 gallon water change to my 30g tank yesterday I noticed that the PH swung up to 6.8 or so (Using a Hanna PH meter). After I finished cleaning the canister and put everything back together I set the CO2 injection for a normal amount. 3 or 4 hours later I check the PH again and found that it was now below 6.0. I cant believe that such wild PH swings are good for my livestock. So the big question is how do the experts contend with this issue?
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CO2
Oct 7, 2014 14:04:54 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Oct 7, 2014 14:04:54 GMT -5
You won't always see pearling even when photosynthesis is in progress As for LED, quite honestly the Fluval is one of the worst LED Lights, the AquaBar or GroBeam would be much better choices Here is an excellent fact based outside review of this product: aquariumopinions.com/2014/04/30/economy-planted-aquarium-led-fluval-aqualife-tmc-aquabar/Another: aquarium-digest.com/2010/04/11/led-aquarium-lights-lighting/#exampleSimply put the Fluval is a low end LED that daisy chains its emitters together with poor PUR Also reference my "Aquarium Lighting" article which notes the Fluval a couple of times and provides good information as to what to look for in an aquarium light. Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.htmlLikely you are dealing with a low GH, which actually has an affect on PH during active photosynthesis. From the "Planted Aquarium Care (Ferts Section)" article *GH (general hardness): 100 ppm or sometimes higher; this is more important than many realize for planted aquariums. “During photosynthesis, a rise in pH can occur in water with low alkalinity (20 to 50 mg/L) or in water with moderate to high bicarbonate alkalinity (75 to 200 mg/L) that has less than 25 mg/L hardness”.
This is an often misunderstood aspect of aquarium plant keeping. There is so much anecdotal information that is out of date with more current aquarium/plant biochemistry information. Not only do plants need many of the minerals found in GH, but, just as important, potentially dangerous upward pH swings can occur if your GH is much below 50 ppm during peak plant photosynthesis. For example, I observed a pH of 6.8 in the morning and then a pH of 7.4 in the afternoon in a tank where GH was low or almost non-existent. Please see the link lower in this section for a study from Texas A&M University about the subject of GH/pH stability during photosynthesis. Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumPlants.html#nutrientsCarl
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CO2
Oct 7, 2014 15:06:06 GMT -5
Carl likes this
Post by hotsauce on Oct 7, 2014 15:06:06 GMT -5
Awesome reply Carl - thanks sooo much. As a retired scientist I really appreciate and respect how you always include authoritative references so your readers can do the further research that results in quicker learning and a higher understanding of the subject matter.
So I have a 30g tall. It is 18" from the tank cover to the substrate. In the past I have had bouts of blackbeard moss and have never really been able to fully get rid of it so I am kind of sensitive to any lighting that is strong in the yellow spectrum. One of the references you gave emphasized that the Fuval had a strong concentration of yellow, which I had previously missed so thanks much for that. So now I am looking at the Aquabeam 600 line of lighting fixtures. My question is that the Kelvin of the Aquabeam 600 series seems to be quite high. I had previously always been advised that the freshwater aquarium wanted something around 6500k. But the Aquabeam's are all above 10000k. Given the above outlined further detail could you revise your recommendation to a more specific model?
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CO2
Oct 7, 2014 15:15:43 GMT -5
Carl likes this
Post by parker002 on Oct 7, 2014 15:15:43 GMT -5
For a freshwater, planted aquarium, you want the GroBeam fixtures rather than the AquaBeam. They are 6500K. With a 30G tall, you might actually be able to use just one GroBeam 1500 tile and get great coverage. www.americanaquariumproducts.com/LEDLights.html#1500
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CO2
Oct 7, 2014 15:42:59 GMT -5
Post by hotsauce on Oct 7, 2014 15:42:59 GMT -5
Yikes - at $260 is there a cheaper alternative on the next tier down. I think that my target spending range is around $100-$150. and I will probably try to keep the T2 HO that I just recently bought.
Thanks
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CO2
Oct 7, 2014 15:49:57 GMT -5
Carl likes this
Post by parker002 on Oct 7, 2014 15:49:57 GMT -5
If you are keeping the T2 HO, you can use a 600 strip. You might be able to use a 600 strip by itself depending on the dimensions of your tank. They're only $125.
What are the exact dimensions of your tank?
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CO2
Oct 7, 2014 15:58:29 GMT -5
Post by hotsauce on Oct 7, 2014 15:58:29 GMT -5
If you are keeping the T2 HO, you can use a 600 strip. You might be able to use a 600 strip by itself depending on the dimensions of your tank. They're only $125. What are the exact dimensions of your tank? 18h 30w 12d I just noticed the Grobeam 600 for $124. Would that be a good compliment for the T2 HO?
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CO2
Oct 7, 2014 17:34:50 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Oct 7, 2014 17:34:50 GMT -5
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CO2
Oct 8, 2014 9:02:29 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 8, 2014 9:02:29 GMT -5
Good discussion here.
High Co2 with high lighting = peraling. But only from certain plants. This is what I've seen.
I have 1 GroBeam over my 40 gal. I had 2, but it ended up being to much light for right now. I need much thicker growth, with lots of shady spots first. Algae is next to nothing right now. Noticeable growth every time I really look for it.
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CO2
Oct 8, 2014 16:06:34 GMT -5
Post by hotsauce on Oct 8, 2014 16:06:34 GMT -5
Thanks for the info devonjohnsgard.
Before I pull the trigger on either the Grobeam 600 or one of the Aqua**** units does anyone have any experience with the Beamswork units? Specifically the "Freshwater Bright LED Aquarium Light 30" 0.5W HI Lumen 6500K"? There seems to be darn little technical data available. I couldnt find anything on the lumens, nor the PUR/PAR values. They are attractively low in price but without tech data I fear another case of you-get-what-you-pay-for.
I also just came from PetSmart - a large LFS chain here in California. They just restocked their aquarium lighting with something branded National Geographic LED Lights. They come in two and three rows of LED's. Since I dont really believe that NatGeo is in the business of building/marketing aquarium lights these must be another rebrand??? The prices are between the Beamswork units and the Grobeam 600 so if the PUR/PAR values are in the correct range could these be an effective emerging alternative just coming on the market?
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