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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 1, 2009 23:45:35 GMT -5
i was in the petsmart and was looking at there assorted cichlids for 4.99 and i found 2 that look almost exactly like labs. and they may indeed be labs.
ill post a video of them frolicking around the tank.
there really really small so sexing i think is out of the picture but they seem to be schooling together wasnt sure if that was normal or not from everything ive read up on them they seem to be very territorial and like to be isolated from eachother but it might just be they were from same batch and are used to being together. mother nature is very mysterious.
here they are ill also post pictures of the rest of the tank mates.Video: Picture of loach hanging out!Picture of loach about to fall.
Picture of loach falling on the big albino cory.Picture of size comparison of loach. roughly 7 inches! almost full grown! woot woot! Picture of 4 out of the 5 neons and you can see a blurr of the crazy little labs!If anyone would like to see any other pictuers let me know and ill do my best to try and take them. Ill definately have more up of the labs when they finally stay still for more than 2 seconds!
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Post by kagome on Apr 1, 2009 23:51:08 GMT -5
Super cool! I am no cichlid expert but hopefully one of them can tell from the video of them swimming at sonic speed whether or not they are indeed labs. I love the pictures of your golden dojo loach, he is really nice looking!
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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 1, 2009 23:56:25 GMT -5
also i realized during acclimation that the cichlid gold pellets i got for them are too big for them to eat i got them the mini pellets when i should have got them the baby pellets. so while they were in the acclimating jug i use an empty gallon water jug for acclimating i put 2 pellets in and they couldn't get there little lips around them so i dropped a tiny pinch of blood worms and they gobbled them up really fast anyway i hope they can survive off of freeze dried blood worms till they get big enough for the cichlid gold pellets.
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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 2, 2009 0:02:42 GMT -5
Thanks kagome. im almost positive they are labs tho from looking at there lab tank and then looking at them in the assorted tank there pretty much identical just alot smaller. and thank you about the loach ill have more pictures of him soon ill post all the loach pictures i have on a seperate page probably under the bottom dweller section so keep an eye on that area. hes pretty much full grown and definately the largest fish we have and 2nd longest fish weve owned since we have set up our tanks in the apt we live in cant remember when we purchased the loach but he was about 2 or 3 days after we got our albino cory cats and red platy wags and first batch of tequilla sunrise guppies.
long story short. we cycled the 10 gallon tank. got platy wags and guppies and they were givin away and the person we gave them to didnt take care of them and eventually flushed them. and we replaced them with our fish we have now.
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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 2, 2009 0:19:53 GMT -5
here is another video i got of them after they settled down and started exploring all the nooks and crannies i have. im going to purchase some pvc pipe in the morning that murdock suggested i use for caves so they can get there own territory instead of fighting over everything that they keep doing its pretty adorable tho one will find something interesting and the other comes up and steals it and then the other goes and finds something else and then the other one comes up and steals it lol!video of them settling!
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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 2, 2009 0:25:12 GMT -5
the only decent still shot i have of them! one of them has white anal fins and the other has white with black accent on the anal fins both have the electric yellow color but the one with the black on the anal fins has a darker yellow verticle striping pattern on it but that might just be cause its adjusting and the true colors havent quite came all the way in.
If anyone knows for sure if there labs let me know soon so i can take them back and get true labs out of the lab tank. you never know what you get out of the assorted cichlid tanks it may be a very close mixed species with dominant lab characteristics.
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Post by jonv on Apr 2, 2009 0:56:43 GMT -5
the only decent still shot i have of them! one of them has white anal fins and the other has white with black accent on the anal fins both have the electric yellow color but the one with the black on the anal fins has a darker yellow verticle striping pattern on it but that might just be cause its adjusting and the true colors havent quite came all the way in.
If anyone knows for sure if there labs let me know soon so i can take them back and get true labs out of the lab tank. you never know what you get out of the assorted cichlid tanks it may be a very close mixed species with dominant lab characteristics.
I really am lost to what the question here is.....If anyone knows for sure if there labs? Unless you meant they're? As in they are? Because reading that, I am thinking you are asking about my labidochromis Caeruleus. Pics are too fuzzy to say 100% but as far as I can see they look like Labidochromis Caeruleus. You aren't going to be able to tell anything about hybrids just yet at those sizes. Sometimes you can clearly see like the face itself doesn't match up with what a typical Lab. Caeruleus would look like or something might be different about the fin shapes. That doesn't mean they are hybrid either. It could just be a genetic defect. That's why I just buy only from people that I know they know what their stock is. The days of me buying from a store are going to be uncommon now, unless maybe I see a stray OB peacock or oddball I'm after. There isn't much you can say about them at this point and size, and you don't have to offer pellets either on the diet. It's not bad, but you need to remember as well, these are Mbuna and primarily herbivores. You'll do far better for them with like a Spirulina coated flake as the main food, and just use the pellets to suppliment from there. Of course I know you've been doing research so I'm sure you already know that and there just wasn't any Spiralina in at the time. In terms of sexing, this species is monomorphic, so I wouldn't base sexing them on just the colorations and size. I do it with mine, because I know my group and watch the growth progress. And of course even then it wasn't 100% when I sent some out to John. All I can say is read up everything you can about venting, this is the way to go with this species. And last advice I'm going to give, don't be in ANY kind of rush to add anything else. Keep this group, watch them for 4-6 months, see what you can find out, and don't rush it. There won't be any sudden drop in fish out there for sale like next week or something. That footprint is not even close to ideal to support multiple males.
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Post by jonv on Apr 2, 2009 0:58:37 GMT -5
Wait a second here....survive on bloodworms? These are mbuna!!!! They are herbivores. If you go feeding them a diet of bloodworms on end, you are going to kill them via bloat. Get a good flake food like the spiralina I mentioned. Bloodworms should be at best 1 time a week, maybe even once every 10 days.
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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 2, 2009 1:28:03 GMT -5
thanks jonv were definately done with that tank and there wasnt any spirulina in stock so i went with the hikari cichlid gold pellets but i was in rush cuz it was closing time so i just grabbed a bag and it happend to be there mini pellet version so there just a tad bit too big. and yes that was exactly my question was if anyone knew for sure if they were the electric yellow labs. i knew they wouldnt be able to sex at that size but i wasnt even sure if they were even the labs since i pulled them out of an assorted african tank. ill have to go back to a pet store in the morning to see about getting some flakes for them i thaught they might be able to survive on the bloodworms until they grew big enough for the pellets but ill be on the safe side and get them what they definately need. and it apears to me by looking at all the pictures floating around the net that there shapes and colors and everything is pointing that there true labs.
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Post by barbara on Apr 2, 2009 1:36:54 GMT -5
thanks jonv were definately done with that tank and there wasnt any spirulina in stock so i went with the hikari cichlid gold pellets but i was in rush cuz it was closing time so i just grabbed a bag and it happend to be there mini pellet version so there just a tad bit too big. and yes that was exactly my question was if anyone knew for sure if they were the electric yellow labs. i knew they wouldnt be able to sex at that size but i wasnt even sure if they were even the labs since i pulled them out of an assorted african tank. ill have to go back to a pet store in the morning to see about getting some flakes for them i thaught they might be able to survive on the bloodworms until they grew big enough for the pellets but ill be on the safe side and get them what they definately need. and it apears to me by looking at all the pictures floating around the net that there shapes and colors and everything is pointing that there true labs. It may be a while to tell if they are true labs. Honestly, without knowing the breeder you may never know, because I don't know that any of us are genetic experts, and what traits would be dominant. I highly recommend that you enjoy your fish, but as for breeding, if you aren't sure, don't pass them along. You may have lucked out in the fact that yellow labs are omnivores, and don't require such a strict diet. They will need some vegetation in their diet, but will be able to digest meaty foods better than most of their mbuna brethren. However, I think you need to look into a tank upgrade, and quickly, as they will definitely eat their tank mates. Mbuna, even the mild ones, don't do well with small, or defenseless fish. I would look at at least a 40 breeder for these, and if you are interested in adding more cichid species to this tank, I would recommend at least a 55 gallon tank.
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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 2, 2009 1:41:08 GMT -5
thanks barb im definately considering transfering the cory cats out of the tank i just need to figure out where to transfer them or if i need to purchase another tank or not. but i think while these mbuna are still tiny that everyone should be safe for a month or so until i can cycle a new 10 gallon tank for the guppy fry that i have coming every month and for the cory cats to have a permanent home. everything i have in my 28 gallon is the 2 mbuna still unknown and the dojo loach and 5 neons for dither fish and my 2 albino cory cats 1 is full grown and other is half way there.
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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 2, 2009 12:36:30 GMT -5
im about to go to the LFS to see what i can do about some quality cichlid flakes i dont think any spiralina is available in my area so im going to look at ingredients on all of the options and get the one that has the most vitamins and beneficial ingredients.
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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 2, 2009 21:16:50 GMT -5
the best choice i have found and purchased was the tetra cichlid mini granules. i know someone has told me that the tetra cichlid food isnt the best choice, but here is the list of vitamins in it and it was the only cichlid food i could find that had extra vitamins in it. www.tetra-fish.com/images/TetraFish/catalog/TCMG_268.jpgTetraCichlid Mini Granules is a specially formulated bite sized food for small cichlids. Enhanced with vitamin C and the new patented, health enhancing ProCare blend from TetraMin®. When used as directed, TetraCichlid Mini Granules will not cloud the water. Fish Meal, Wheat Germ Meal, Corn Gluten, Feeding Oat Meal,Ground Brown Rice, Soybean Meal, Potato Protein,Dried Yeast, Fish Oil,Shrimp Meal, Wheat Gluten,Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Monobasic,Calcium Phosphate, Algae Meal, L-Lysine Monohydrochloride,Lecithin, Soybean Oil, Ascorbic Acid (Source of Vitamin C),Inositol, Niacin,A-Tocopherol-Acetate, Riboflavin-5-phosphate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (Stabilized Vitamin C), D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Palmitate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex , Folic Acid, Biotin, Cyanocobalamin, Cholecalciferol, Manganese sulfate, Zinc sulfate, Ferrous sulfate, Cobalt nitrate. Artificial colors, Beta-Carotene, Blue 2 lake, Red 3 dye, Yellow 6 lake. Ethoxyquin and Citric Acid both as Preservatives Crude protein (min.) 44%, crude fat (min.) 11%, crude fiber (max.) 2%, moisture (max.) 8%, phosphorus (min.) 1.4%, ascorbic acid (vitamin C) (min.) 100 mg/kg. Vitamin rich, high protein diet in a mini granule that's the perfect size for smaller cichlids. Will not cloud the water.
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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 2, 2009 21:36:48 GMT -5
also picked up a small cave but they only had 1 so ive been searching on the internet for something similar or the same but im having no luck. ill check back at the store next week i think they get new shipments in every week so we could possibly get the same exact one next week if they re order it.
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Post by Carl on Apr 3, 2009 10:50:44 GMT -5
As Barbara noted, these mbuna are primarily omnivores that should have some vegetable matter (hopefully of high quality), as well they can tolerate some meaty foods as Barbara also noted. I also agree with Jon about bloodworms as I have observed constipation and poor growth and disease resistance when these are a major part of the diet. As well, even in meaty food sources, not all sources are created equal. Fish Meal is a good example as Tetra and many other low end foods use fish meal that is left over from other food processing, which is often missing important amino acids and Omega fatty acids. At a pet food seminar I attended years back, an analogy that was used was that many pet/fish foods can meet their minimum/maximum nutrients using some quite strange ingredients such as used leather shoes and leftover ashes; however this does NOT insure digestibility. I would urge you to read this article: Fish NutritionAnd this one as well: Spirulina Algae, the health benefits as a fish foodThe section about fish meal in the first article I would point out in particular to read (including the resource links) Finally, I would try and find better foods than Tetra Brands, as there are many better alternatives out there now (HBH, Spirulina 20, Omega, Aqueon, Ocean Nutrition, just to name a few) Carl
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Post by jonv on Apr 3, 2009 11:01:45 GMT -5
I use the staple food of Spiralina 20 and just suppliment around that to give other things. The way I see it, is even the omnivores and piscovores can still make use of this as food, and rounding out the diet by sparingly using the bloodworms and brine shrimp will cover all the bases. Mbuna cover a large range of species, and a large number of them are susceptible to the Malawi Bloat.
On a side note to this, an addition to my Victorian groups, I'll be picking up a Pytochromis Salmon (Hippo Point) and Barb found for me these are primarily snail eaters. Something like this would pose a challenge to mix with Mbuna as offering what the Hippo Point's would need, would introduce a high amount of live foods which could cause issues with the Mbuna eating it also. I'll just keep them in a different tank for that reason, along with making sure the females don't look like females of the other few species of Vics I have.
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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 3, 2009 12:03:00 GMT -5
thanks carl and jon they just didnt have any ill prolly have to order some online. and i know tetra isnt the greatest brand for food but it did have the most vitamins added into there cichlid food that the store had. im thinking i might be able to find some at petsmart rather then at the LFS but even at that im not sure if they carry it either. so if that fails ill definately order some online. iknow petsmart carries the aqueon.
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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 3, 2009 12:11:01 GMT -5
also checked petsmart.com the aqueon products they have dont include cichlid food but there is tropical food.
ill keep searching some of there other brand names carl listed.
and as for some bad news i had to transfer my cory cats out of the tank because my largest and oldest cory cat one of the first fish we purchased since moving into the apt had lost half of its tail and i was keeping an eye on them since adding the cichlids and i decided it was best if we move them out so i did the acclimation and transfer and everyones all good. the cichlids dont seem to bother the loach tho atleast not yet but im keeping an eye on him aswell.
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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 3, 2009 12:16:10 GMT -5
www.petsmart.com/product/zoom/index.jsp?productId=2753179A complete diet for all tropical fish. The opportunistic feeding habits of the African Cichlid require a broad scope of both seafood proteins and vegetable matter. Omega One African Cichlid Flakes offer the appropriate mix for high attractibility that will result in a feeding frenzy in your aquarium. Made only with fresh Seafood. Contains fresh natural fats for strong appetite stimulation. Ingredients: Whole Salmon, Whole Herring, Black Cod, Halibut, Whole Shrimp, Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Fresh Kelp, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (source of vitamin C), Natural and Artifical Colours, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (preservative), Ethoxyquin (preservative). Guaranteed Analysis: * Crude Protein (min) 39% * Crude Fat (min) 11% * Crude Fiber (max) 2% * Max. Moisture (max) 8.5% * Ash (max) 8%, * Phosphorus (min) 0.5% * Omega 3 (min) 2% * Omega 6 (min) 1% Feeding Suggestions: Feed three times daily, using only as much food as fish can consume in two minutes. Omega One formula will not cloud water. Made in the USA.
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Post by corycatwoman on Apr 3, 2009 12:16:49 GMT -5
so far that is the best choice as for all the information carl has givin me still searching.
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