|
Post by murdock6701 on Feb 8, 2009 22:01:33 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by bikeguy33 on Feb 8, 2009 22:17:49 GMT -5
looks great my friend.....may not be as nice as some i`ve seen as you stated....but way nicer than many i have seen...you`ve come a long way
|
|
|
Post by jonv on Feb 8, 2009 22:42:48 GMT -5
That's pretty snazzy John and looks good. Looks like my babies grew up and are having a wonderful time under your care!!! Great get your feet wet with species, and looks like there is little to no barring on this group still. Clearly to me, one of the best groups of fry I've ever had of this species. Good home you gave them bud, keep it up.
|
|
|
Post by eve on Feb 8, 2009 23:24:10 GMT -5
what, not good pics??? those are awesome john second pic from top is definitely a female first pic from top looks to be a male to me not completely colored up on the black, however looks to be a male if you look at your sure female and your maybe male and your for sure male the females are much slender then the males i tend to believe that as you suspected already that you have in fact 2 males
|
|
|
Post by jonv on Feb 8, 2009 23:38:42 GMT -5
what, not good pics??? those are awesome john the females are much slender then the males i tend to believe that as you suspected already that you have in fact 2 males This is the part I don't concur with here Eve. I started this group out from birth to larger tank and watched the growth progress of the whole stock, isolating males as it went. It was a decent group and at the time i shipped, were the only Mbuna in a 100 gallon footprint. I ID'd by growth pattern, six males which I took out. After that, I found 5 more that spurted up in 2 weeks. I gave John one of the first males I took out. The 3 females I selected, were by far, at least half the size of the other males in the group. One female died in transition, most likely because the male freaked in the bag. With that dominant known male out of the tank for that long, no other Mbuna or cichlid to pose a threat or stress, if that's a male in the presence of a female, it would have color changed by now. Given these fish all came from a decent sized brood, I think was like 27 total, I'd have to think this is just an example of a dominant female really. Plus the absence of the male, should have caused the suspected sub dom male to become more assertive within a couple days, being this is a 20 gallon tank. Over time though, we'll see. Either that fish is going to brood up a brood, or it won't. The only x factor we can't account for, would be if it's just an infertile female. I'm about 80-90% sure, that is a female.
|
|
|
Post by eve on Feb 8, 2009 23:41:48 GMT -5
well, i would suggest watching their bevahior for a while
i think you said they're about a year old so they're definitely in breeding age
|
|
|
Post by jonv on Feb 8, 2009 23:51:37 GMT -5
They look just like their mom too Eve. She's got a really pure yellow body, no bars at all. Their dad is dead. He died in that tank crash since he was in that 75.
The only reason I even have any doubts, as now I see the pictures, if that's a female, she is pretty big for a lady. Maybe it's a confused fish not sure if it's a female or male LOL I think female Eve really. That fish was pretty small compared to the others in the brood, and while I know that's not a totally accurate method, it was a pretty big footprint to allow for multiple males to grow big.
I'd like to say that if you see the male shaking his tail at the suspect, that's a good sign, but I've seen known males to go so far to imitate being a female, they follow the tail and actually act like a female. What I would say is this. If you see the spawning attempt by the male, and watch close. After a pass or two, if that's a pretending male acting female, the male seems to catch on to this and will chase them off. If it's a female, and she's responding, the dance will continue and he won't chase her off. That's the best tip i can give at this point without being able to vent it.
|
|
|
Post by kagome on Feb 9, 2009 1:18:46 GMT -5
I don't know what you're talking about John, your tanks are beautiful. Those yellow labs really are very pretty. That is one nice looking loach you have there. Great body shape and color. Will the yellow labs stay in the community tank long term?
|
|
|
Post by jonv on Feb 9, 2009 10:11:50 GMT -5
There are a number of other African keepers that feel you shouldn't and can't keep these in a 20. I do not really agree with this myself. The overall size these fish get to should not outgrow the footprint really and so long as you keep 1 male in there and everything else female, it should turn out ok Kag.
|
|
|
Post by murdock6701 on Feb 9, 2009 11:06:47 GMT -5
Kagome - just the one male lab in the community tank as a time out as his behavior was lets say, less than exemplary towards his own kind....Jon, am very inclined to believe the other large lab is a male - I put to large old adult platys in there yesterday and they were beaten to a pulp last night sometime after I turned the lights out - still alive......also noticed a depression in the gravel like someone was making a "nest" - have noticed more aggressive behavior from that one (male/female) not the choice of the one I'd like to breed but if that's the way it turns out, whatever - the othermale in the community has the black which I like, but he seems very content to be where he is w/ no females....go figure
|
|
|
Post by jonv on Feb 9, 2009 12:10:49 GMT -5
The parents though, weren't much into the pit thing. This in my opinion is more of a wild fish aspect, as most all of my fish have been doing their thing on the flat surfaces. Now though, if you are seeing a change in attitude and behavior, that's the signs we're looking for. If he swims over to the female, he should "dress" himself up to attract her.
Now, you want to mate her with the bigger male? Not a problem. Try putting her in with him, let things be for a few days and see how she responds. She'll probably run and hide a day or two, but she's sort of got to accept him. If he gets too wild, you can put her back with the other male.
Keep in mind too, many first spawns often fail as the female has to learn what to do. It might be a better thing to let her try to first time with the other male so she gets experience, then just put her in the tank with the other male the next time around. Give her a couple weeks in a tank by herself with her fry, and then put her back with either male. After the first few times, you might get her on a regular spawn schedule about once a month or so. I have some other fish growing out John and I can probably send you a couple addtional females or if you can pick some up females locally, that's not going to hurt either. It's a pretty impressive sight to see a male going all out to court multiple females.
|
|
|
Post by murdock6701 on Feb 9, 2009 14:23:51 GMT -5
it's kind of funny Jon how the male I isolated for being aggressive has mellowed in the community tank and the one I thought was a female who was being hassled all the time turned into the aggressor and beat up on my platys -
|
|
|
Post by eve on Feb 9, 2009 14:26:27 GMT -5
which sounds to me like you do have another male which is pairing up with the female
|
|
|
Post by murdock6701 on Feb 9, 2009 14:33:08 GMT -5
uh huh......"he" is the one in the 1st pic, she is the one in the 2nd - that cave has an upper and lower chamber, the upper being bigger than the lower
|
|
|
Post by murdock6701 on Feb 9, 2009 15:19:37 GMT -5
I might add as well that "he" can't get into the upper one - it's too small for him
|
|
|
Post by jonv on Feb 9, 2009 15:41:03 GMT -5
It may likely be a case where the darker one grew out faster, and began asserting itself early on, considering they were in a large tank where you could have multiple dominant males, to the 20, and now there is say another male in there, and that male has decided, it's had about enough of being pushed around.
So you put the darker bigger one in the other tank, he doesn't have any stress of trying to keep putting a beat down on the smaller but growing second male, he get's all happy looking around. So now we have the second male sitting there like hmmm, no more mr big guy, let me see what I can do here.
If he's doing a pit that's really good John. Try to get a shot of that, I'd like to see that. I've never had labs do this, but the Madagacars sure do a heck of a job excavating. All in all though it appears this group has retained it's color genes from mom then dad. I don't know if I'll ever get another brood so pure in yellow again, so I am very pleased I was able to give you part of that brood.
The female should be able to take care of herself in that set up so I wouldn't worry too much unless you find her one time up in the corner cowering and not comming out of that corner. If you see that, the male is asserting himself too much. I guess you could say even African cichlid males can experience some sexual frustration ha ha ha.
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Feb 9, 2009 18:00:36 GMT -5
I am a late comer to this thread (one of those days, I am still catching up with emails from early this morning).
Anyway, I will just say that I REALLY like the caves you built, they almost appear totally natural and part of some under water mountian scenery.
GREAT JOB.
Carl
|
|
|
Post by murdock6701 on Feb 9, 2009 18:30:22 GMT -5
thanks everyone - I have to admit, it took some time and planning to blend the driftwood and rocks together to make it look natural and create as many hidey holes as possible without making it impassable - hardest part was the "balancing act" so nothing can come crashing down - solid as a ......so far, so good - really like the mountain double cave - came in the box of free goodies I got w/ the long 20 gallon tank!
|
|
|
Post by brenda on Feb 9, 2009 19:17:48 GMT -5
I think your tanks look great John!!!
|
|
|
Post by babygeige on Feb 9, 2009 19:53:15 GMT -5
Nice pics John! Do the platies on the far left in the platy picture have a special name? The ones with the stripes on the sides of the tail fins? I really like those, in fact, I was just looking at some of those at the lfs today!
|
|